Gbh56

Ingo, Sylvia, Josef, or others,



May I ask you opinion on the following situation? An F-1 student in
legal status (DS) wants to get married with

a girl who is in the US legally on B-1/B-2 or visa waiver. The question
is whether she will have any problems

obtaining an F-2 after she leaves the country and applies in the
consulate.



Does it matter how long ago her visa was obtained (it does not apply in
the case of visa waiver)? Does it matter how soon

after her arrival they get married? Is it better to wait 60 days like in
case of marrying a USC? It is the matter of possible

"preconcieved intent" suspicion, I suppose.



Thank you so much for your reply. You can see from the question how
important it is to avoid complications and

be able to live together. And one more thing, F-1 cannot leave the
country because the F-1 visa stamp expired and the new stamp

may take months to obtain which may jeopardize an assistanship from the
college. I understand that getting married

abroad might have been better to get an F-2 but unfortunately, this is
not an option.



Please post your opinion. Would greatly appreciate it.

Sylvia Ottemoeller

"gbh56" <member18119@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:...

    > May I ask you opinion on the following situation? An F-1 student in
    > legal status (DS) wants to get married with
    > a girl who is in the US legally on B-1/B-2 or visa waiver. The question
    > is whether she will have any problems
    > obtaining an F-2 after she leaves the country and applies in the
    > consulate.

    > Does it matter how long ago her visa was obtained (it does not apply in
    > the case of visa waiver)? Does it matter how soon
    > after her arrival they get married? Is it better to wait 60 days like in
    > case of marrying a USC? It is the matter of possible
    > "preconcieved intent" suspicion, I suppose.

They do not have to worry about preconceived intent, as the Foreign Affairs
Manual specifically allows B-2 to be used for a person to enter the U.S. to
marry a person in nonimmigrant status. See Foreign Affairs Manual, Volume
9, section 41.31 notes, N11.1-2.

However, she does have to worry about showing her own temporary intention
when she applies for an F-2 visa the next time she leave the U.S. There are
no guarantees.

    > Thank you so much for your reply. You can see from the question how
    > important it is to avoid complications and
    > be able to live together. And one more thing, F-1 cannot leave the
    > country because the F-1 visa stamp expired and the new stamp
    > may take months to obtain which may jeopardize an assistanship from the
    > college. I understand that getting married
    > abroad might have been better to get an F-2 but unfortunately, this is
    > not an option.

Mayo

My understanding, and I am no lawyer is:

Getting married in the US is a local matter, not an immigration
matter. If you both are here legally you can get married anytime. (I
asked my lawyer if I could get married to USC while being an H1 and
they said no problem it is a local matter). If she leaves after the
wedding your school has to provide you with paperwork to bring your
spouse over (there will be a requirement for proof of funds to support
both of you). I am not sure if you can adjust status while she is
here, my guess would be no. As a spouse she will not be abel to study
or work, in some states she may not even get a drivers license, but
she will be here with you

People get confused with the situation when one of the parties is a US
citizen. In that case the government does try to prevent fraud
(marriages just for immigration). I believe that even then it is o.k.
to get married even if the foreign spouse comes with a normal visa
waiver, provided the person leaves the country afterwards. It could
cause problems if there is a subsequent immigration petition emanating
from the marriage (there is a special fiancee visa for those cases).
The fraud only happens if the marriage was entered for immigration
purposes and that can only be if there is a petition for such benefits














gbh56 <member18119@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Ingo, Sylvia, Josef, or others,
    >
    >
    >
    > May I ask you opinion on the following situation? An F-1 student in
    > legal status (DS) wants to get married with
    >
    > a girl who is in the US legally on B-1/B-2 or visa waiver. The question
    > is whether she will have any problems
    >
    > obtaining an F-2 after she leaves the country and applies in the
    > consulate.
    >
    >
    >
    > Does it matter how long ago her visa was obtained (it does not apply in
    > the case of visa waiver)? Does it matter how soon
    >
    > after her arrival they get married? Is it better to wait 60 days like in
    > case of marrying a USC? It is the matter of possible
    >
    > "preconcieved intent" suspicion, I suppose.
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you so much for your reply. You can see from the question how
    > important it is to avoid complications and
    >
    > be able to live together. And one more thing, F-1 cannot leave the
    > country because the F-1 visa stamp expired and the new stamp
    >
    > may take months to obtain which may jeopardize an assistanship from the
    > college. I understand that getting married
    >
    > abroad might have been better to get an F-2 but unfortunately, this is
    > not an option.
    >
    >
    >
    > Please post your opinion. Would greatly appreciate it.

Gbh56

Originally posted by Sylvia Ottemoeller
    > "gbh56"
<member18119@british_expats.com> wrote in message
    > news:1076182.-
"]news:-
[/url]...
    >
    > > May I ask you opinion on the following situation?
An F-1 student in
    > > legal status (DS) wants to get married
with
    > > a girl who is in the US legally on B-1/B-2 or visa
waiver. The question
    > > is whether she will have any
problems
    > > obtaining an F-2 after she leaves the country and
applies in the
    > > consulate.
    >
    > > Does it matter
how long ago her visa was obtained (it does not apply in
    > >
the case of visa waiver)? Does it matter how soon
    > > after her
arrival they get married? Is it better to wait 60 days like in
    > case of marrying a USC? It is the matter of possible
    > >
"preconcieved intent" suspicion, I suppose.
    >
    > They do not have
to worry about preconceived intent, as the Foreign Affairs
    > Manual
specifically allows B-2 to be used for a person to enter the U.S. to
marry a person in nonimmigrant status. See Foreign Affairs Manual,
Volume
    > 9, section 41.31 notes, N11.1-2.
    >
    > However, she does have to
worry about showing her own temporary intention
    > when she applies for
an F-2 visa the next time she leave the U.S. There are
    > no guarantees.

    >
    >
Sylvia wrote:

    > They do not have to worry about
preconceived intent,
    > as the Foreign Affairs Manual specifically
allows B-2 to
    > be used for a person to enter the U.S. to
    > marry a
person in nonimmigrant status. See
    > Foreign Affairs Manual, Volume
9, section 41.31 notes, N11.1-2.


The FAM allows that when intent to
get married was originally stated when she applied for a B-2 visa.
However, B-2 visa may have been obtained a while a go (years perhaps)
and curcumstances like this do change over such periods of time. My
understanding is that she is also supposed to tell that the purpose of
her trip is to get married to an F-1 to the INS inspector at POE and,
again, he may turn her around just because of that.

I am not sure
whether it was in a FAM or in one of DOS telegrams, that they have a
time criteria to establish a preconcieved intent (30/60 days). However,
this applies to the marriage with the USC. Could it be that similar
criteria is applied to B-2/F-2 marriage?

Sylvia wrote:

    > However, she
does have to worry about showing
    > her own temporary intention when she
applies for
    > an F-2 visa the next time she leave the U.S. There are
no guarantees.

I had a different opinion re this. It was my
understanding (and I am no expert, so please correct me here if I am
wrong) that 214(b) (proof of lack of immigration intent) does not
apply
to F-2 separately but applies to F-1 only. F-1 is of course a different
matter and an F-1 application may be refused in the consulate because of
214(b) and such cases are known. However, if an F-1 holder is already in
the US or has his visa and the paperwork for F-2 applicant is in order
(no doubt that marriage is not a sham), then F-2 will not be refused
because of 214(b). So, F-2 is then granted almost automatically unless
there are other inegligibility reasons for an F-2 applicant (like
criminal convictions, etc).

Sylvia, please comment,
gbh

Sylvia Ottemoeller

"gbh56" <member18119@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:...

    > Originally posted by Sylvia Ottemoeller

    > > "gbh56"
    > <member18119@british_expats.com> wrote in message
    > > news:1076182.-
    > "]news:-
    > [/url]...
    > >
    > > > May I ask you opinion on the following situation? An F-1 student in
    > > > legal status (DS) wants to get married with
    > > > a girl who is in the US legally on B-1/B-2 or visa waiver. The
question
    > > > is whether she will have any problems
    > > > obtaining an F-2 after she leaves the country and applies in the
    > > > consulate.
    > >
    > > > Does it matter how long ago her visa was obtained (it does not apply
in
    > > > the case of visa waiver)? Does it matter how soon
    > > > after her arrival they get married? Is it better to wait 60 days like
in
    > > case of marrying a USC? It is the matter of possible
    > > > "preconcieved intent" suspicion, I suppose.


    > Sylvia wrote:
    > > They do not have to worry about preconceived intent,
    > > as the Foreign Affairs Manual specifically allows B-2 to
    > > be used for a person to enter the U.S. to
    > > marry a person in nonimmigrant status. See
    > > Foreign Affairs Manual, Volume
    > > 9, section 41.31 notes, N11.1-2.

    > The FAM allows that when intent to
    > get married was originally stated when she applied for a B-2 visa.
    > However, B-2 visa may have been obtained a while ago (years perhaps)
    > and curcumstances like this do change over such periods of time.

A B-2 visa is valid for any B-2 purpose during its period of validity.

My
    > understanding is that she is also supposed to tell that the purpose of
    > her trip is to get married to an F-1 to the INS inspector at POE and,
    > again, he may turn her around just because of that.

Well, he may -- any examiner could do anything -- but he would be wrong.
B-2 is supposed to function like a fiance status for persons planning to
marry nonimmigrant status holders.

    > I am not sure
    > whether it was in a FAM or in one of DOS telegrams, that they have a
    > time criteria to establish a preconcieved intent (30/60 days). However,
    > this applies to the marriage with the USC. Could it be that similar
    > criteria is applied to B-2/F-2 marriage?

I don't think so. The marriage could properly take place the day the B-2
holder enters the U.S.

    > Sylvia wrote:
    > > However, she does have to worry about showing
    > > her own temporary intention when she applies for
    > > an F-2 visa the next time she leave the U.S. There are
    > > no guarantees.
    > I had a different opinion re this. It was my
    > understanding (and I am no expert, so please correct me here if I am
    > wrong) that 214(b) (proof of lack of immigration intent) does not apply
    > to F-2 separately but applies to F-1 only. F-1 is of course a different
    > matter and an F-1 application may be refused in the consulate because of
    > 214(b) and such cases are known. However, if an F-1 holder is already in
    > the US or has his visa and the paperwork for F-2 applicant is in order
    > (no doubt that marriage is not a sham), then F-2 will not be refused
    > because of 214(b). So, F-2 is then granted almost automatically unless
    > there are other inegligibility reasons for an F-2 applicant (like
    > criminal convictions, etc).

Well, you have a point in that the intention of the F-1 status holder is
relevant when the F-2 spouse applies for a visa. However, intention is
normally reexamined at every visa application, and the F-2 spouse would be
well advised to present evidence of the F-1 holder's current intentions. I
would not regard issuance of the F-2 visa as "automatic."

LucyMO

Why don't you just apply to change her status from B1/2 to F2 while she
is in the States? She doesn't need to leave the country for that.

Fg35

Originally posted by LucyMO
    > Why don't you just apply
to change her status from B1/2 to F2 while she is in the States? She
doesn't need to leave the country for that.

That's may or
may not be true. The change of status from B1/2 to H4 is almost always
approved by INS. As for
B1/2->F2 change, I heard from the lawyer, it
is often denied and she may have to leave the country for that (I have
no information to judge the competence of this particular lawyer.)


Now, even if you succeed in changing the status to F-2 with INS, she
WILL need a new visa to come back if she needs to travel out of the
country. This F-2 visa may or may not be granted and there are many
variables involved, including the kind of breakfast the consul had on
the day of her interview. Some posters above discussed whether 214(b)
denial is possible for an F-2 applicant when F-1 is already in the US.
There seem to be no consensus yet.

Sylvia wrote earlier:

    >"the
intention of the F-1 status holder is relevant
    >when the F-2 spouse
applies for a visa. However,
    >intention is normally reexamined at
every visa
    >application, and the F-2 spouse would be
    >well advised to
present evidence of the F-1 holder's
    >current intentions."

Does it
mean that the intentions of F-2 per se are IRRELEVANT. Can F-2 be
denied based solely of F-2 applicant's situation.

It is also hard to
imagine how can one present an evidence of the intention of a different
person (that is F-2 applicant to prove the intention of an F-1 person
who is already in the US).

So far this seems murky.

Sylvia also
wrote:

    > "I would not regard issuance of the F-2 visa as "automatic."


There is nothing like "automatic" of course in the questions of visa
issuance. The consul should have no doubt that the marriage is a real
thing, not a piece of paper. The I-20 should show sufficient funds for
both the sponsor (F-1) and the dependent. But if these and similar
conditions are satisfied, how can F-2 be refused for the lack of her
ties to the home country? Of course her husband is now in the States,
so her ties to her husband is stronger. By this standard F-2 should
never be granted which would be nonsense. OTOH, to refuse an F-2
because of an intention of F-1 who cannot be questioned personally
seems far off, doesn't it?

And as for the refusal of B-2 admittance if
the intention of POE to marry an F-1 is stated:

    > Well, he may -- any
examiner could do anything --
    > but he would be wrong [to refuse].
B-2 is supposed to function
    > like a fiance status for persons
planning to
    > marry nonimmigrant status holders.

I read somewhere at
this newsgroup that, unlike for the allien arriving on the visa waiver,
an allien with a valid B-2 visa has an option to appeal the refusal of
admission. What is this appeal? Is it simply a request for a review by
a supervisor on the spot or a lengthy appeal to a judge with detention
while the case is pending. If B-2 is a valid "fiance for another non-
immigrant" status, it could be quickly straightened out on the spot
with a senior inspector who knows the regulations better than first
line inspector.

The feedback from the forum gurus might shed some
light on this.

Sylvia Ottemoeller

"fg35" <member22175@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:...

[snip]

    > Sylvia wrote earlier:
    > >"the intention of the F-1 status holder is relevant
    > >when the F-2 spouse applies for a visa. However,
    > >intention is normally reexamined at every visa
    > >application, and the F-2 spouse would be
    > >well advised to present evidence of the F-1 holder's
    > >current intentions."
    > Does it
    > mean that the intentions of F-2 per se are IRRELEVANT.

The examiner will be (potentially) looking at the whole picture of this
little family, so the intentions of the F-2 holder are not irrelevant.

Can F-2 be
    > denied based solely of F-2 applicant's situation.
    > It is also hard to
    > imagine how can one present an evidence of the intention of a different
    > person (that is F-2 applicant to prove the intention of an F-1 person
    > who is already in the US).
    > So far this seems murky.

How about a statement of the F-1 holder's educational plans, and then his or
her plans and prospects for employment in the home country afterward? How
about family ties (both F-1 and F-2 holders), cultural ties, etc.? If
either holds property, evidence of that can be presented.