Bruce Garr

Hi.
I have a big problem. My girlfriend came here on a tourist visa. She
then began attending an ESL school here and filed a petition with the
INS to change her visa status to that of a student visa. The INS said
that because she came here originally as a tourist, that she was wrong
in attending the ESL school and that she had intended all along to be
a student here and was, in fact, guiltly of hiding this fact and must
exit the US immediately.

So, did she screw up here in a big way? Assuming she leaves now, can
she apply for a student visa in her own country of China (Hong Kong)?
Does she stand a chance now of getting a student visa in Hong Kong and
coming here again (California)? Is it hard to get a student visa in
Hong Kong? Am I going to lose my girlfriend?

Thanks.

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:58:31 -0800, Bruce Garr wrote:

    > Hi.
    > I have a big problem. My girlfriend came here on a tourist visa. She
    > then began attending an ESL school here and filed a petition with the
    > INS to change her visa status to that of a student visa. The INS said
    > that because she came here originally as a tourist, that she was wrong
    > in attending the ESL school and that she had intended all along to be a
    > student here and was, in fact, guiltly of hiding this fact and must exit
    > the US immediately.

That is a pretty serious allegation - in effect, immigration fraud. Did
they say anything about her being banned from the US? If not, the easy way
out probably is to leave the USA. Do be sure to call an immigration
attorney first to make sure there won't be any unpleasant surprises later
(such as, her departure taken as an admission of guilt)

    > So, did she screw up here in a big way? Assuming she leaves now, can
    > she apply for a student visa in her own country of China (Hong Kong)?
    > Does she stand a chance now of getting a student visa in Hong Kong and
    > coming here again (California)? Is it hard to get a student visa in
    > Hong Kong? Am I going to lose my girlfriend?

Don't panic. It will be tricky, but chances are that the situation is
salvageable. As I said, your first step should be finding a competent
immigration attorney who has experience with immigration fraud cases (when
you call the attorney and ask if he has handled any immigration fraud
cases).

Also, if you are a US citizen, consider marrying her. If not, your
relationship may actually help strengthen her case.

Bruce Garr

Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:58:31 -0800, Bruce Garr wrote:
    >
    > > Hi.
    > > I have a big problem. My girlfriend came here on a tourist visa. She
    > > then began attending an ESL school here and filed a petition with the
    > > INS to change her visa status to that of a student visa. The INS said
    > > that because she came here originally as a tourist, that she was wrong
    > > in attending the ESL school and that she had intended all along to be a
    > > student here and was, in fact, guiltly of hiding this fact and must exit
    > > the US immediately.
    >
    > That is a pretty serious allegation - in effect, immigration fraud. Did
    > they say anything about her being banned from the US? If not, the easy way
    > out probably is to leave the USA. Do be sure to call an immigration
    > attorney first to make sure there won't be any unpleasant surprises later
    > (such as, her departure taken as an admission of guilt)

Well, the letter they sent her says that she must leave the US now.
Is this a sting operation that would show that she is, in fact, guilty
of fraud? Is there a problem with her simply leaving? Can I call the
INS? Do they give advice over the phone in California?
    >
    > Don't panic. It will be tricky, but chances are that the situation is
    > salvageable. As I said, your first step should be finding a competent
    > immigration attorney who has experience with immigration fraud cases (when
    > you call the attorney and ask if he has handled any immigration fraud
    > cases).
    >
    > Also, if you are a US citizen, consider marrying her. If not, your
    > relationship may actually help strengthen her case.

We are talking about marriage, but I haven't know her that long, and
would have liked to get to know her better. I am a US citizen, but
how would my not being so strengthen her case?

    > Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
    > everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
    > newsgroups.
    >
    > Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
    > http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
    >
    > Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)
    >
    > My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
    > my Web site for information on how to contact me.
    >
    > Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
    > http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.

Thanks.
Bruce

Supernav

The problem is you said she STARTED ATTENDING school. That's bad. You
can't do that on a tourist visa. That's the problem.



I'm not sure, but i *think* you can apply for a student visa while
you're here on a tourist visa. I don't know how things have changed
since 9/11 -- maybe they've tightened up stuff on student visas.



She's still on her tourist visa, so she can still happily leave and
apply for a student visa at home. I doubt the INS officer on the
phone got her A# and made a remark that she's commited fraud by going
to school.



but if she got married. All her overstay, etc. would be forgiven and
she could stay here. And foreign "tourists" for some reason, fall in
love with USC's real quickly. Haven't figured that one out yet.



-= nav =-

Jozef

"supernav" <member16283@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:...
    > The problem is you said she STARTED ATTENDING school. That's bad. You
    > can't do that on a tourist visa. That's the problem.

Yes - she violated status.

    > I'm not sure, but i *think* you can apply for a student visa while
    > you're here on a tourist visa.

Yes, provided you declared your intent to study at the POE. If you didn't
the request is likely to be denied.

    > She's still on her tourist visa, so she can still happily leave and
    > apply for a student visa at home. I doubt the INS officer on the
    > phone got her A# and made a remark that she's commited fraud by going
    > to school.

She's been found out by CIS and she's effectively out of status and should
leave as soon as humanly possible. Applying for a student visa at home
shouldn't be a problem though.

    > but if she got married. All her overstay, etc. would be forgiven and
    > she could stay here. And foreign "tourists" for some reason, fall in
    > love with USC's real quickly. Haven't figured that one out yet.

Me neither!

Ingo Pakleppa - See Web Site For Email

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:44:11 -0800, Bruce Garr wrote:

    > Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email <> wrote in message
    > news:<>...
    >> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:58:31 -0800, Bruce Garr wrote:
    >>
    >> > Hi.
    >> > I have a big problem. My girlfriend came here on a tourist visa.
    >> > She then began attending an ESL school here and filed a petition with
    >> > the INS to change her visa status to that of a student visa. The INS
    >> > said that because she came here originally as a tourist, that she was
    >> > wrong in attending the ESL school and that she had intended all along
    >> > to be a student here and was, in fact, guiltly of hiding this fact
    >> > and must exit the US immediately.
    >>
    >> That is a pretty serious allegation - in effect, immigration fraud. Did
    >> they say anything about her being banned from the US? If not, the easy
    >> way out probably is to leave the USA. Do be sure to call an immigration
    >> attorney first to make sure there won't be any unpleasant surprises
    >> later (such as, her departure taken as an admission of guilt)
    >
    > Well, the letter they sent her says that she must leave the US now. Is
    > this a sting operation that would show that she is, in fact, guilty of
    > fraud? Is there a problem with her simply leaving? Can I call the INS?
    > Do they give advice over the phone in California?

NEVER, EVER, rely on advice from the CIS (INS does not exist any more!),
neither by phone nor in person.

As for the letter saying that she must leave the US now, before you do
anything, discuss it with a competent immigration attorney. Yes, she
indeed is clearly out of status at this point in time.

Do keep in mind that CIS is a law enforcement agency, much as the police
is. Their job is basically to make sure that only those people are in the
USA who have been allowed to by an act of Congress.

Just as a cop was able to tell O.J.Simpson "you killed Nicole Brown", CIS
can tell her "you lied". But also, neither statement are automatically
facts. They become facts only if either a judge decides so, or if you
decide not to contest them. Departing the USA could be taken as an
indication that your girlfriend agrees that the CIS decision was right.
Possibly - but I'm really completely out of my depth on this one - it
might be enough for her to write a letter to CIS, stating for the record
"I am departing without agreeing to the charges of immigration fraud" -
but, again, I may simply be a bit naive here.

Again, only a competent immigration attorney can advise you here.

    >> Don't panic. It will be tricky, but chances are that the situation is
    >> salvageable. As I said, your first step should be finding a competent
    >> immigration attorney who has experience with immigration fraud cases
    >> (when you call the attorney and ask if he has handled any immigration
    >> fraud cases).
    >>
    >> Also, if you are a US citizen, consider marrying her. If not, your
    >> relationship may actually help strengthen her case.
    >
    > We are talking about marriage, but I haven't know her that long, and
    > would have liked to get to know her better. I am a US citizen, but how
    > would my not being so strengthen her case?

Part of the reason for the denial was suspected immigration intent. If you
were not a US citizen (and not a Green Card holder, either), then she
would have evidence that she had a good reason to return to her home
country - namely, you returning yourself.