Hatunen

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:08:20 -0500, Darby Jo
<> wrote:

    >I'm traveling with some family members to the UK next spring.
    >We'd like to spend some time in London and then take some trips
    >to Bath, York, and Cambridge. Most of us would like to plan our
    >own trip, but my mother would prefer an organized tour and for
    >some reason is extremely reticent to take a train. This is what
    >she said:
    >"I had some questions about train travel in GB, so I called my
    >travel agent, and here is what she told me. They NEVER recommend
    >that you check your luggage on a train, because chances are good
    >you may never see it again. What you do is take it on with you,
    >and then you have to lift it to the overhead compartment.

Yep. One doesn't check bagggage for trains in Europe the way one
used to check baggage on American trains, or buses or airplanes.
You do, indeed, schlep it on to the train and store in in racks.
There are almost always overhead racks, and soemlong distance
trains have racks at the ends of the cars.

    >Also,
    >unless you are taking a train from a major city and returning to
    >that major city, the trains are like metros--they arrive on time,
    >and leave on time, and if you aren't at the head of the line you
    >may not get on. There are no boarding calls. This would be like
    >the metro in Paris, and we had to wait several times for the next
    >one*. We might not have the option of another train coming along
    >in a smaller town."

It would be pretty rare for a small-town station to have that
many people trying to board a train, unless, of course, it is a
commuter train during commute hours.

Trains for longer distances allow the making of seat reservations
at the cost of a few dollars. This reserves you a seat and is
advised for trains that are likely to be crowded. For one, this
assures travvelling companions can sit together.

    >*That was an occasion where it was rush hour and the line was
    >under construction, so there were delays.
    >How do I convince her that it's really not so difficult, that we
    >can manage just fine taking a train on our own and really don't
    >need a bus tour? I don't know what to say to make her see that
    >trains are perfectly manageable, even with luggage.

So long as she has someone with her to assist in putting luggage
overhead there should be no problem. But let's face it, some
people are just fraidy-cats about independent travel.

    >Darby Jo

************* DAVE HATUNEN () *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Darby Jo

I'm traveling with some family members to the UK next spring.
We'd like to spend some time in London and then take some trips
to Bath, York, and Cambridge. Most of us would like to plan our
own trip, but my mother would prefer an organized tour and for
some reason is extremely reticent to take a train. This is what
she said:
"I had some questions about train travel in GB, so I called my
travel agent, and here is what she told me. They NEVER recommend
that you check your luggage on a train, because chances are good
you may never see it again. What you do is take it on with you,
and then you have to lift it to the overhead compartment. Also,
unless you are taking a train from a major city and returning to
that major city, the trains are like metros--they arrive on time,
and leave on time, and if you aren't at the head of the line you
may not get on. There are no boarding calls. This would be like
the metro in Paris, and we had to wait several times for the next
one*. We might not have the option of another train coming along
in a smaller town."

*That was an occasion where it was rush hour and the line was
under construction, so there were delays.

How do I convince her that it's really not so difficult, that we
can manage just fine taking a train on our own and really don't
need a bus tour? I don't know what to say to make her see that
trains are perfectly manageable, even with luggage.

Darby Jo

Keith Willshaw

"Darby Jo" <> wrote in message
news:...
    > I'm traveling with some family members to the UK next spring.
    > We'd like to spend some time in London and then take some trips
    > to Bath, York, and Cambridge. Most of us would like to plan our
    > own trip, but my mother would prefer an organized tour and for
    > some reason is extremely reticent to take a train. This is what
    > she said:
    > "I had some questions about train travel in GB, so I called my
    > travel agent, and here is what she told me. They NEVER recommend
    > that you check your luggage on a train, because chances are good
    > you may never see it again.

AFAIK there's no such facility

    > What you do is take it on with you,
    > and then you have to lift it to the overhead compartment.

On long distance trains there are luggage racks at each end of the car
and if you travel mid day on the short haul roots you can keep
it with you OK

    > Also,
    > unless you are taking a train from a major city and returning to
    > that major city, the trains are like metros--they arrive on time,
    > and leave on time, and if you aren't at the head of the line you
    > may not get on. There are no boarding calls. This would be like
    > the metro in Paris, and we had to wait several times for the next
    > one*. We might not have the option of another train coming along
    > in a smaller town."

Even Intercity trains leave pretty frequently, an hourly service
is pretty typical and from London to Cambridge they are every
10 minutes or so at peak and

    > *That was an occasion where it was rush hour and the line was
    > under construction, so there were delays.

Try and avoid trains at rush hours , especially on commuter routes
like London-Cambridge

    > How do I convince her that it's really not so difficult, that we
    > can manage just fine taking a train on our own and really don't
    > need a bus tour? I don't know what to say to make her see that
    > trains are perfectly manageable, even with luggage.

Point out that the train is much more comfortable and that
Britain has terrible traffic congestion.

London - York by Train takes 2 hours, you need half a day
on the coach and you'll be packed in like sardines.

Keith

Philip George

    >"I had some questions about train travel in GB, so I called my
    >travel agent, and here is what she told me. They NEVER recommend
    >that you check your luggage on a train, because chances are good
    >you may never see it again. What you do is take it on with you,
    >and then you have to lift it to the overhead compartment.

Indeed. A few railway companies are now offering to send luggage
by road (in advance), but normally you take the luggage to the train
yourself. If you have a lot of luggage then on long-distance trains
you can give it to the guard who will look after it in the baggage
car. However on short-distance trains you'll usually have to
leave it either at the end of the car (near the door) or near
where you are sitting. You don't have to use the overhead
compartments.

    > Also,
    >unless you are taking a train from a major city and returning to
    >that major city, the trains are like metros--they arrive on time,
    >and leave on time, and if you aren't at the head of the line you
    >may not get on.
    >There are no boarding calls. This would be like
    >the metro in Paris, and we had to wait several times for the next
    >one*. We might not have the option of another train coming along
    >in a smaller town."

Unless you are travelling on a very popular train, usually during
rush hour in urban areas, you will never have to 'miss the train
and get the next one'. Generally trains really aren't that busy.
It is only in rush hour that it becomes standing-room-only.
And on most trains you can reserve a seat anyway! On the busier
ones seat reservations are free.

Boarding calls? You mean an announcer? At major stations they
announce where the trains are going. And at very major stations
you even have a porter service and the train waits around for quite
a long time for people to get on. At minor stations you'll get
little more than an electronic destination board... and that's
if you're lucky.

Trains in Britain don't usually run on time or leave on time :-)
But usually they're not much more than 5-10 mins late.

    >How do I convince her that it's really not so difficult, that we
    >can manage just fine taking a train on our own and really don't
    >need a bus tour? I don't know what to say to make her see that
    >trains are perfectly manageable, even with luggage.

Trains are a very popular way of getting around the UK, particularly
for journeys to places like Bath, Edinburgh and Cambridge! The only
thing is, if you have a lot of luggage it can be a little awkward
carrying it around. Major stations do have luggage trollies
and (apart from in the rush hour) people will help you to carry
things on and off.

Obviously carrying luggage on to the train is going to be a little more
hassle than using a bus or organised tour, but the ultimate
convenience and speed will outweight that negative.

I suppose the 2 'difficulties' with the train system are:

* The ticketing is really complicated. There are about 50 different
types of ticket you can buy. If you want to travel before 9:30am on
a weekday the fares are usually about twice the fare after 9:30!
And in general, one-way tickets are usually the same price as round-trips.
So if you are making a 'circular' journey it will cost you a lot of money.
Don't travel 'first class' as it'll cost you a LOT more.
To get the cheapest tickets on long-distance routes (saving you about 30% off
the turn-up-and-go fares) you're advised to book a week in advance, if not 2 weeks.

* At weekends there tend to be engineering works that cause a lot of
alterations. So if travelling on Saturday or Sunday be prepared for
a longer journey than usual.


For me a bus tour would be a nightmare. But I like being independent.

phil

Tim

"Hatunen" <> wrote in message news:...
    > On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:08:20 -0500, Darby Jo
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >I'm traveling with some family members to the UK next spring.
    > >We'd like to spend some time in London and then take some trips
    > >to Bath, York, and Cambridge. Most of us would like to plan our
    > >own trip, but my mother would prefer an organized tour and for
    > >some reason is extremely reticent to take a train. This is what
    > >she said:
    > >"I had some questions about train travel in GB, so I called my
    > >travel agent, and here is what she told me. They NEVER recommend
    > >that you check your luggage on a train, because chances are good
    > >you may never see it again. What you do is take it on with you,
    > >and then you have to lift it to the overhead compartment.
    >
    > Yep. One doesn't check bagggage for trains in Europe the way one
    > used to check baggage on American trains, or buses or airplanes.

If only I could remember where to find the story of the couple
who checked their luggage into the 'left luggage' at London and
when they got to Manchester asked where they should collect it
from

If only

tim
.


    > You do, indeed, schlep it on to the train and store in in racks.
    > There are almost always overhead racks, and soemlong distance
    > trains have racks at the ends of the cars.
    >
    > >Also,
    > >unless you are taking a train from a major city and returning to
    > >that major city, the trains are like metros--they arrive on time,
    > >and leave on time, and if you aren't at the head of the line you
    > >may not get on. There are no boarding calls. This would be like
    > >the metro in Paris, and we had to wait several times for the next
    > >one*. We might not have the option of another train coming along
    > >in a smaller town."
    >
    > It would be pretty rare for a small-town station to have that
    > many people trying to board a train, unless, of course, it is a
    > commuter train during commute hours.
    >
    > Trains for longer distances allow the making of seat reservations
    > at the cost of a few dollars. This reserves you a seat and is
    > advised for trains that are likely to be crowded. For one, this
    > assures travvelling companions can sit together.
    >
    > >*That was an occasion where it was rush hour and the line was
    > >under construction, so there were delays.
    > >
    > >How do I convince her that it's really not so difficult, that we
    > >can manage just fine taking a train on our own and really don't
    > >need a bus tour? I don't know what to say to make her see that
    > >trains are perfectly manageable, even with luggage.
    >
    > So long as she has someone with her to assist in putting luggage
    > overhead there should be no problem. But let's face it, some
    > people are just fraidy-cats about independent travel.
    >
    > >
    > >Darby Jo
    > >
    >
    > ************* DAVE HATUNEN () *************
    > * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
    > * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Jim Ley

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:46:19 -0600, Hatunen <> wrote:

    >There are almost always overhead racks, and soemlong distance
    >trains have racks at the ends of the cars.

Also some have places between seats, where you can place suitcase
shaped luggage, allowing you to both keep it near, and not need to
lift it - not sure if it's on the routes mentioned though.

    >>Also,
    >>unless you are taking a train from a major city and returning to
    >>that major city, the trains are like metros--they arrive on time,
    >>and leave on time, and if you aren't at the head of the line you
    >>may not get on.

Trains are never that full other than at commute time around London,
and even then it's rare that you won't get on just that you'll need to
stand crushed in with everyone else, and get dirty looks for your
bags, this is easy to avoid though, just travel at mid-day, when
there's no commuters around.

    >Trains for longer distances allow the making of seat reservations
    >at the cost of a few dollars.

Normally free here in the UK, it's often a pain though as then you
have to find your seat, rather than just finding a free one, it
depends on how full the train is likely to be and where you're getting
on - certainly wise though if you're in a large group and not sure.
    >So long as she has someone with her to assist in putting luggage
    >overhead there should be no problem.

Yep, there's always people around, I've never seen anyone have any
problems finding someone to lift a bag up for them.

Jim.

Owain

"Darby Jo" <> wrote in message
news:...
    | I'm traveling with some family members to the UK next spring.
    | We'd like to spend some time in London and then take some trips
    | to Bath, York, and Cambridge. Most of us would like to plan our
    | own trip, but my mother would prefer an organized tour and for
    | some reason is extremely reticent to take a train. This is what
    | she said:
    | "I had some questions about train travel in GB, so I called my
    | travel agent, and here is what she told me. They NEVER recommend
    | that you check your luggage on a train, because chances are good
    | you may never see it again. What you do is take it on with you,
    | and then you have to lift it to the overhead compartment. Also,
    | unless you are taking a train from a major city and returning to
    | that major city, the trains are like metros--they arrive on time,
    | and leave on time, and if you aren't at the head of the line you
    | may not get on. There are no boarding calls. This would be like
    | the metro in Paris, and we had to wait several times for the next
    | one*. We might not have the option of another train coming along
    | in a smaller town."
    |
    | *That was an occasion where it was rush hour and the line was
    | under construction, so there were delays.
    |
    | How do I convince her that it's really not so difficult, that we
    | can manage just fine taking a train on our own and really don't
    | need a bus tour? I don't know what to say to make her see that
    | trains are perfectly manageable, even with luggage.
    |
    | Darby Jo
    |
    |

Graham Harrison

How about a compromise?

http://www.london-tourism.com/train-index.html
http://www.sightseeingtours.co.uk/lo...ing_centre.htm

I have absolutely no knowledge of the companies. However, one of them
offers Orient Express tours which do have a good reputation and can be
contacted via their own web site

http://www.orient-express.com/web/bp...a_journeys.jsp

but they are the luxury end of the market and priced accordingly.

If you want to find out the times (and hence frequency) of regular trains
and prices look at

http://www.thetrainline.com/
http://www.qjump.co.uk/index.jsp
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/planmyjourney/

Generally, Bath and Cambridge are twice an hour, York hourly (but often
more).

I'm not sure what to say to your mother, it's such 2nd nature to me to take
the train. UK trains are generally quite different than Amtrak. Instead
of one train a day wandering all the way across the US you get multiple
trains per day. Journey times are much shorter. We still have a tiny
number of overnight trains but most are day only. By day I mean between
0600 and 2200 (ish). The nearest equivalent is probably the New
York/Washington service but if you live anywhere else in the US that
probably doesn't help either.

While you can go to the station and buy a ticket, it is (generally) cheaper
to book in advance. As others have mentioned this usually results in you
having a reserved seat. This takes away the uncertainty of whether you
will find a seat, or not. On long distance trains (e.g. Bath and York, but
not Cambridge I believe) while there is an overhead space for baggage there
will also be a space at the end of the coach (as you enter and leave) where
luggage can be stored at floor or shoulder level. There is also sometimes
space between certain seats at floor level.

As far as boarding is concerned at terminal stations in London simply arrive
15 minutes before departure and you will have time to find the correct
platform and walk to your seat. At intermediate stations the train will
pull up and the doors will open. On the Bath (and some York) trains they
open much like the doors of your house and the train won't (can't) depart as
long as one door is open. The doors can't be closed other than by someone
actually standing there and physically closing the door. On the remaining
York and all Cambridge trains the doors are controlled centrally but I've
never seen anyone left behind. The scheduling at stations allows time for
people to board allowing for the fact that on long distance trains there
will be luggage and that not everyone is young and fit. You don't get
unlimited time, but you get enough time.

Finally, both my parents were still quite happy to travel by train until
very shortly before their deaths in their 80s.

Owain

"Philip George" wrote
    | To get the cheapest tickets on long-distance routes (saving you about
    | 30% off the turn-up-and-go fares) you're advised to book a week in
    | advance, if not 2 weeks.

You can get *much* cheaper tickets if you book about 8 weeks in advance for
a specific train. I almost got Stirling-York return for GBP17

    | * At weekends there tend to be engineering works that cause a lot of
    | alterations. So if travelling on Saturday or Sunday be prepared for
    | a longer journey than usual.

Or to be 'bustituted'

Owain

Owain

"Darby Jo" wrote
    | I'm traveling with some family members to the UK next spring.
    | We'd like to spend some time in London and then take some trips
    | to Bath, York, and Cambridge. Most of us would like to plan our
    | own trip, but my mother would prefer an organized tour and for
    | some reason is extremely reticent to take a train. This is what
    | she said:
    | "I had some questions about train travel in GB, so I called my
    | travel agent, and here is what she told me. They NEVER recommend
    | that you check your luggage on a train, because chances are good
    | you may never see it again.

You can't do that anyway, as others have said.

    | What you do is take it on with you,
    | and then you have to lift it to the overhead compartment.

There are also storage areas at the end of the carriage and often at floor
level between the seat backs.

Travelling London-York (GNER trains on the East Coast Main Line) there will
be uniformed GNER staff on the platform helping people on and off the train.
I would expect that Bath and Cambridge are also well-equipped for handling
tourists with suitcases.

London King's Cross is level access to all platforms.
York has a Lift available from station concourse (Platform 3) to Platforms
5-11. Customer assistance available - "Call for Aid" button by taxi rank at
front of station. Accessible toilets on Platform 2.
Bath may involve steps/ramps to platforms.
Cambridge has level access to platforms.

All checked at Serco station information database
http://www.serco-online.com/html/sta..._home_atoc.asp


    | Also, unless you are taking a train from a major city and returning
    | to that major city, the trains are like metros--they arrive on time,
    | and leave on time,

well, mostly :-)

    | and if you aren't at the head of the line you may not get on.

What line? You wait along the platform about where your carriage will stop
and then get your reserved seat. If the staff are feeling organised that day
and they haven't got the train 'in reverse formation' there will often be
signs on the platform for 'wait here for coaches A-B-C' etc.

    | There are no boarding calls.

I was in York a few months back and they have very clear announcements and
plasma information screens. The long distance trains will be announced and
indicated up to an hour before departure. Other major stations will be the
same.[1] You will also get announcements on the train about 5-10 minutes
before arrival at a station to give you time to leave your seat and collect
your luggage together.

    | This would be like the metro in Paris, and we had to wait several
    | times for the next one. We might not have the option of another
    | train coming along in a smaller town."

Outside commuter routes at rush hour, trains simply don't get that crowded.
Obviously if a train gets cancelled, the one following it is going to be
crowded and your seat reservation will count for nothing. But your chances
of getting a seat are still fairly good.

If the last train home at night is cancelled then buses or taxis will be
laid on to get you home.

And Bath, York and Cambridge aren't really 'smaller towns' in a British
sense.

    | How do I convince her that it's really not so difficult, that we
    | can manage just fine taking a train on our own and really don't
    | need a bus tour? I don't know what to say to make her see that
    | trains are perfectly manageable, even with luggage.

Trains have:

Loos
Coffee bars/restaurants and/or a trolley service of drinks and light
refreshments
Nicer views
2x2 seating arrangements with a table on intercity, so you can sit together
and play cards or scrabble
Mobile phone free carriages (sometimes)
If you want something from your suitcase during the journey you can get it,
which you can't on a bus because it's in an outside locker
Atmosphere

And train stations are usually much nicer than bus stations for waiting
around in.

As I understand it, you're travelling as a group anyway, so it's not as
though she'd have to cope with trains/luggage on her own. My mother managed
a trip with three changes and a pull-along suitcase on her own and I won't
say how old she is.

Owain


[1] You can even check these on line at
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ldb/fs_departures.asp