Lapsed Canuck

For those of you who have spent (and wasted) a lot of time on this board
slagging off Canada as you have had to work to earn a living and weren't
offered the creme de la creme of jobs when you went there, I would like
to point out that your situations are not unique nor are they
particularly horrible. You seem to have access to a computer and
therefore must have a home or an office where you can sit in the warmth
and make your ridiculous statements. Aren't you lucky to have done so
well in Canada! (And if you are not in Canada, what are you doing on
these boards?!)



I moved from Canada 12 years ago to England and also had to work at
crappy jobs for awhile. That is the nature of moving to a new country! I
left Canada to see something of the world and fully expected to do poor
jobs until I settled somewhere and worked my way up. That is one thing
about Canadians generally. We aren't afraid to work hard and know that
we have to EARN what we have. I find it offensive to hear some of the
things some people have said about Canada and I don't think the country
or Canadians deserve such abuse. If some of you are having trouble
settling in your new country, perhaps its because you feel lonely
amongst the generally decent people around you.



Canada is not perfect. I know. I grew up there and left there looking
for something else. However, I am coming back home and bringing my
partner because I am damn proud of my country in the current climate and
I am glad to be part of a nation that stands for something other than
its own self-interest.



For my part, I hope that those of you who do not want to be there manage
to find your way out so that you can make room for people who are
willing to make the effort. There are many on these boards alone who
would love the opportunity that you have had and are wasting. However,
if you are still there, me and my fellow Canadians will still smile and
say hello to you - because having manners and dignity is just how we
are brought up. We make no apologies for fairness and equality being at
the heart of our core values.



Finally, I would appreciate it if you would talk about my country and
its people with the same respect that I would talk about yours.

Rete

While I certainly appreciate the patriotism you have verbalized for your
home country, I find it ironic that you felt dissatisfaction with it in
your younger years and had to leave the bosom of its borders for worlds
unknown in a quest for fulfillment that you could not find in Canada and
now you are upset with those who have verbalized their dissatisfaction
with your nation. Why is it alright that you left your country for 12
years which is, in itself, a condemnation of lifestyle of your own
country, and those that are still living there and trying to make a life
there cannot have the very same privilege.



You are returning to a country where you are a citizen and have been
since birth. An immigrant and even a naturalized citizen to Canada will
be treated differently by your fellow Canadians when it comes to
opportunities. You verified this when you spoke of taking the crap jobs
in the UK when you first migrated there. If you are qualified for a
position and the position is available, why does the employer turn away
an immigrant that your country begged to come to its shores with
promises of a better life and career opportunities. The criteria for
entrance to Canada is stiff and those candidates that met the point
system are disillusioned when doors are slammed on them because of their
nationality and lack of Canadian work experience.



Welcome back to your country, Lapse. Perhaps as a person who has done
that, been there, and has the tee shirt you can educate your fellow
Canadians to the plight of the immigrant.



BTW I'm a wife of a Canadian who just became a US Citizen. We live here
because your country will not allow me there. I have a Bachelor of
Science degree in Business Administration with a minor in Marketing. I
have worked full time for the past 34 years. I have no criminal record.
Not even a driving ticket. But, unfortunately, I had breast cancer in
1991 and although cancer free for 12 years and married to a Canadian for
five years, your country will not give me residency.



You have a lot to learn about your country, Lapse. Not all of it is
good and correct. In fact, many of us who straddle both sides of the
border see Canada as having become too politically correct in its
attitude and stands for little of value to the outside world these days.



Rita









Originally posted by Lapsed Canuck

    > For those of you who have spent (and wasted) a lot of time on this
    > board slagging off Canada as you have had to work to earn a living and
    > weren't offered the creme de la creme of jobs when you went there, I
    > would like to point out that your situations are not unique nor are
    > they particularly horrible. You seem to have access to a computer and
    > therefore must have a home or an office where you can sit in the
    > warmth and make your ridiculous statements. Aren't you lucky to have
    > done so well in Canada! (And if you are not in Canada, what are you
    > doing on these boards?!)


    > I moved from Canada 12 years ago to England and also had to work at
    > crappy jobs for awhile. That is the nature of moving to a new country!
    > I left Canada to see something of the world and fully expected to do
    > poor jobs until I settled somewhere and worked my way up. That is one
    > thing about Canadians generally. We aren't afraid to work hard and
    > know that we have to EARN what we have. I find it offensive to hear
    > some of the things some people have said about Canada and I don't
    > think the country or Canadians deserve such abuse. If some of you are
    > having trouble settling in your new country, perhaps its because you
    > feel lonely amongst the generally decent people around you.


    > Canada is not perfect. I know. I grew up there and left there looking
    > for something else. However, I am coming back home and bringing my
    > partner because I am damn proud of my country in the current climate
    > and I am glad to be part of a nation that stands for something other
    > than its own self-interest.


    > For my part, I hope that those of you who do not want to be there
    > manage to find your way out so that you can make room for people who
    > are willing to make the effort. There are many on these boards alone
    > who would love the opportunity that you have had and are wasting.
    > However, if you are still there, me and my fellow Canadians will still
    > smile and say hello to you - because having manners and dignity is
    > just how we are brought up. We make no apologies for fairness and
    > equality being at the heart of our core values.


Finally, I would appreciate it if you would talk about my country and
its people with the same respect that I would talk about yours.

Thehelper

    > well in Canada! (And if you are not in Canada, what are you doing on
    > these boards?!)

and what are you doing here? showing off?
    > I am glad to be part of a nation that stands for something other than
    > its own self-interest.

what this has to do with this board, tell it to your partner instead
    > would love the opportunity that you have had and are wasting. However,
    > if you are still there, me and my fellow Canadians will still smile and

    > Finally, I would appreciate it if you would talk about my country and
    > its people with the same respect that I would talk about yours.

may be its time to stop reading this newsgroup then?

    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Alfaris

Just a quick note - I believe that now you will be eligible to
immigrate to Canada. The excessive demand medical inadmissibility does
not exist for spousal cases under the new Canadian immigration law.
Want to try again?



Alfaris



Originally posted by Rete

    > While I certainly appreciate the patriotism you have verbalized for
    > your home country, I find it ironic that you felt dissatisfaction with
    > it in your younger years and had to leave the bosom of its borders for
    > worlds unknown in a quest for fulfillment that you could not find in
    > Canada and now you are upset with those who have verbalized their
    > dissatisfaction with your nation. Why is it alright that you left
    > your country for 12 years which is, in itself, a condemnation of
    > lifestyle of your own country, and those that are still living there
    > and trying to make a life there cannot have the very same privilege.


    > You are returning to a country where you are a citizen and have been
    > since birth. An immigrant and even a naturalized citizen to Canada
    > will be treated differently by your fellow Canadians when it comes to
    > opportunities. You verified this when you spoke of taking the crap
    > jobs in the UK when you first migrated there. If you are qualified
    > for a position and the position is available, why does the employer
    > turn away an immigrant that your country begged to come to its shores
    > with promises of a better life and career opportunities. The
    > criteria for entrance to Canada is stiff and those candidates that met
    > the point system are disillusioned when doors are slammed on them
    > because of their nationality and lack of Canadian work experience.


    > Welcome back to your country, Lapse. Perhaps as a person who has done
    > that, been there, and has the tee shirt you can educate your fellow
    > Canadians to the plight of the immigrant.


    > BTW I'm a wife of a Canadian who just became a US Citizen. We live
    > here because your country will not allow me there. I have a Bachelor
    > of Science degree in Business Administration with a minor in
    > Marketing. I have worked full time for the past 34 years. I have no
    > criminal record. Not even a driving ticket. But, unfortunately, I
    > had breast cancer in 1991 and although cancer free for 12 years and
    > married to a Canadian for five years, your country will not give me
    > residency.


    > You have a lot to learn about your country, Lapse. Not all of it
    > is good and correct. In fact, many of us who straddle both sides of
    > the border see Canada as having become too politically correct in
    > its attitude and stands for little of value to the outside world
    > these days.


Rita

Lapsed Canuck

I appreciate your point of view Rete. However, my comments are not made
from some sort of romantic patriotism. They are defending my country and
those that want to go there from some fairly vile statements made by
people who do not seem to have even been there nor appreciate the
'plight of the immigrant' as you call it. I did not leave Canada due to
dissatisfaction at all - merely to explore the world and particularly
England as my grandmother came from England to Canada as an immigrant
many years ago. She instilled in me the value of having an appreciation
for life outside the country's borders - as is similar for many
Canadians who come from other places. I stayed here as I have worked
hard and done well in a particular field that I would have found
difficult to have found work in at home without quite high
qualifications - so I do appreciate that side of things!

I will also come home having to work my way up again and I have
recognised that before making the decision. I may not get taken on for
jobs that require Canadian experience and/or an indepth understanding
of the field from a Canadian point of view either.



As I said, the place is not perfect - I know that from my own experience
and that of my family and friends who have always lived there. You may
see it as politically correct but having lived in places where people
from other countries are in fact villified and where human rights do not
seem to be that high on the agenda, I am proud that Canada holds firm to
alot of its principles - as was shown in the recent Iraq war. Americans
are having a tricky time knowing what to think about Canada given its
stance on the war and against capitol punishment, the legalisation of
gay marriage, etc but I certainly can live with that.



Immigration in any country is a tricky and often unfair business and it
is worth noting that Canada is by far not the worst. Being Asian in
Britain right now and the States is a surefire sign of being a
terrorist! Even being black or Chinese Canadian and trying to get over
the border to the States has been difficult for several mates of mine.
And that's just for a visit!



I was unable to work in Ireland (where I went with my husband) unless
the company proved that an Irish person could not be found to do the job
I had applied for! So please do not patronise me by saying I know little
about my country and/or about immigration issues. I am sorry things did
not work out for you but I think it is unfair for people (and there are
not that many of them) to come on this site and try to put others off
having a go by saying pretty nasty things that are neither useful or
based on most people's reality - as has been shown by many of the
responses here. Productive and helpful comments are what's needed to
support and inform people here - whether they are critical or positive.









Originally posted by Rete

    > While I certainly appreciate the patriotism you have verbalized for
    > your home country, I find it ironic that you felt dissatisfaction with
    > it in your younger years and had to leave the bosom of its borders for
    > worlds unknown in a quest for fulfillment that you could not find in
    > Canada and now you are upset with those who have verbalized their
    > dissatisfaction with your nation. Why is it alright that you left
    > your country for 12 years which is, in itself, a condemnation of
    > lifestyle of your own country, and those that are still living there
    > and trying to make a life there cannot have the very same privilege.


    > You are returning to a country where you are a citizen and have been
    > since birth. An immigrant and even a naturalized citizen to Canada
    > will be treated differently by your fellow Canadians when it comes to
    > opportunities. You verified this when you spoke of taking the crap
    > jobs in the UK when you first migrated there. If you are qualified
    > for a position and the position is available, why does the employer
    > turn away an immigrant that your country begged to come to its shores
    > with promises of a better life and career opportunities. The
    > criteria for entrance to Canada is stiff and those candidates that met
    > the point system are disillusioned when doors are slammed on them
    > because of their nationality and lack of Canadian work experience.


    > Welcome back to your country, Lapse. Perhaps as a person who has done
    > that, been there, and has the tee shirt you can educate your fellow
    > Canadians to the plight of the immigrant.


    > BTW I'm a wife of a Canadian who just became a US Citizen. We live
    > here because your country will not allow me there. I have a Bachelor
    > of Science degree in Business Administration with a minor in
    > Marketing. I have worked full time for the past 34 years. I have no
    > criminal record. Not even a driving ticket. But, unfortunately, I
    > had breast cancer in 1991 and although cancer free for 12 years and
    > married to a Canadian for five years, your country will not give me
    > residency.


    > You have a lot to learn about your country, Lapse. Not all of it
    > is good and correct. In fact, many of us who straddle both sides of
    > the border see Canada as having become too politically correct in
    > its attitude and stands for little of value to the outside world
    > these days.


Rita

Lapsed Canuck

You, 'my friend', are one of the people I am referring to. So glad you
could take the time to read my post. Thanks.







Originally posted by Thehelper

    > > well in Canada! (And if you are not in Canada, what are you
    > doing on

    > > these boards?!)


    > and what are you doing here? showing off?

    > > I am glad to be part of a nation that stands for something other
    > than

    > > its own self-interest.


    > what this has to do with this board, tell it to your partner instead

    > > would love the opportunity that you have had and are wasting.
    > However,

    > > if you are still there, me and my fellow Canadians will still
    > smile and


    > > Finally, I would appreciate it if you would talk about my
    > country and

    > > its people with the same respect that I would talk about
    > yours.


    > may be its time to stop reading this newsgroup then?


    > > --

    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com/"]http://britishexpats.-
com[/url]

Iaink

Personally I am outraged that you are not able to reside in Canada, but
why do you consider it some form of treason to wish to see the world
outside your immediate home? I left the UK, but would certainly not
consider that a condemnation of the lifestyle there, and I would not see
any irony in defending the UK against any unfounded arguments brought
against it, as I would now defend Canada.



Some of the remarks posted here are certainly valid complaints, such as
those about the way Canada courts skilled immigrants, but does nothing
once they are here to have the professional bodies recognise their
skills and experience so that they can fulfill the functions they were
allegedly allowed into the country for. Many other posts here are
plainly offensive to the majority of canadians, or are posted by Trolls
seeking a response for whatever motivation, and I think these are the
ones Lapsed was sounding off about.



I agree with you about the frustration felt by qualified immigrants
missing oportunities because of the protectionist attitude of the
licensing bodies and the need for canadian experience, but any immigrant
coming who is unaware of this has simply not looked into it. I really
doubt this has anything to do with nationality. New Canadian graduates
face similar hurdles to a well paid job, but maybe because they have not
left positions of responsibility to get to that point they are more
prepared to do intern style work to get a foot in the door, and of
course they have the advantage of the old boys network and co-op
positions to find suitable ways to get experience.



Others have made the point that immmigration should not be about job
oportunities or enhanced careers, but embracing the lifestyle of your
adopted home, and this attitude would seem to be more likely to lead to
a successful transition to Canadian life.



I think maybe Lapsed is stretching if he thinks having access to a
computer compensates for not being able to get a decent job due to the
canadian experience requirements, and there are probably many
"qualified" immigrant out there who do not have the oportunity to
complain here, but just suffer in silence. I for one think the the
government could do more to take on the regulatory bodies to encourage
them to be more flexible in recognising immigrants experience so that
everyone can benefit from it but Lapsed himself states that Canada is
not perfect.



Maybe I am wrong, but I think the point he was really trying to make is
that if you emmigrate to anywhere, you cannot expect to pick up where
you left off, and that no nation owes you a living. If you came to
canada expecting it to be Nirvana right off the plane, then you have
unrealistic expectations and have not prepared sufficiently for the
reality for life as an immigrant.



I think that maybe your view of Canada as "too politically correct in
its attitude and stands for little of value to the outside world these
days" is maybe true only south of the border, due to the media reaction
to them not steping into line with the US /UK over Iraq, and "liberal'
attitudes to same sex marriage, capital punishment etc. If anything
it takes a lot more guts for Canada to do this and risk pissing off its
biggest trading partner, and maybe that indicates that it does in fact
stand for something. I'm with Lapsed in thinking that " I am glad to be
part of a nation that stands for something other than its own self-
interest."



my 2 cents



Iain





Originally posted by Rete

    > While I certainly appreciate the patriotism you have verbalized for
    > your home country, I find it ironic that you felt dissatisfaction with
    > it in your younger years and had to leave the bosom of its borders for
    > worlds unknown in a quest for fulfillment that you could not find in
    > Canada and now you are upset with those who have verbalized their
    > dissatisfaction with your nation. Why is it alright that you left
    > your country for 12 years which is, in itself, a condemnation of
    > lifestyle of your own country, and those that are still living there
    > and trying to make a life there cannot have the very same privilege.


    > You are returning to a country where you are a citizen and have been
    > since birth. An immigrant and even a naturalized citizen to Canada
    > will be treated differently by your fellow Canadians when it comes to
    > opportunities. You verified this when you spoke of taking the crap
    > jobs in the UK when you first migrated there. If you are qualified
    > for a position and the position is available, why does the employer
    > turn away an immigrant that your country begged to come to its shores
    > with promises of a better life and career opportunities. The
    > criteria for entrance to Canada is stiff and those candidates that met
    > the point system are disillusioned when doors are slammed on them
    > because of their nationality and lack of Canadian work experience.


    > Welcome back to your country, Lapse. Perhaps as a person who has done
    > that, been there, and has the tee shirt you can educate your fellow
    > Canadians to the plight of the immigrant.


    > BTW I'm a wife of a Canadian who just became a US Citizen. We live
    > here because your country will not allow me there. I have a Bachelor
    > of Science degree in Business Administration with a minor in
    > Marketing. I have worked full time for the past 34 years. I have no
    > criminal record. Not even a driving ticket. But, unfortunately, I
    > had breast cancer in 1991 and although cancer free for 12 years and
    > married to a Canadian for five years, your country will not give me
    > residency.


    > You have a lot to learn about your country, Lapse. Not all of it
    > is good and correct. In fact, many of us who straddle both sides of
    > the border see Canada as having become too politically correct in
    > its attitude and stands for little of value to the outside world
    > these days.


Rita

Rete

Originally posted by Alfaris

    > Just a quick note - I believe that now you will be eligible to
    > immigrate to Canada. The excessive demand medical inadmissibility does
    > not exist for spousal cases under the new Canadian immigration law.
    > Want to try again?


    > Alfaris





I would love to. Hubby stills owns a condo in Ottawa which he rents out
so where to live is not a problem. Nor is income since he has a
military pension after 36 years of service.



Perhaps Canadian will give this Yank a chance after all. But can I
afford your taxes ;-)



Rete

Iaink

Originally posted by Rete

    > I would love to. Hubby stills owns a condo in Ottawa which he rents
    > out so where to live is not a problem. Nor is income since he has a
    > military pension after 36 years of service.


    > Perhaps Canadian will give this Yank a chance after all. But can I
    > afford your taxes ;-)


    > Rete



Can you afford you health insurance premium ;-)



Iain

Rete

And I appreciate yours, as well. But you must realize that
immigrants, regardless of where they come from, even first world
country to first world country, are going to be dissatisfied with the
country they have moved to. It took my husband close to 4 years
before he grew to "like and tolerant" the US. Even today, as a US
Citizen, he still compares the US to Canada and in some instances the
Canada now comes out second best. He loves our politics and judicial
system though and can't wait to vote.



The point is you have your viewpoint and it is valid. They have their
view point and it, too, is valid.



Hope you have a successful homecoming and that getting your husband into
Canada is not too exhausting.



Rete



Originally posted by Lapsed Canuck

    > I appreciate your point of view Rete. However, my comments are not
    > made from some sort of romantic patriotism. They are defending my
    > country and those that want to go there from some fairly vile
    > statements made by people who do not seem to have even been there nor
    > appreciate the 'plight of the immigrant' as you call it. I did not
    > leave Canada due to dissatisfaction at all - merely to explore the
    > world and particularly England as my grandmother came from England to
    > Canada as an immigrant many years ago. She instilled in me the value
    > of having an appreciation for life outside the country's borders - as
    > is similar for many Canadians who come from other places. I stayed
    > here as I have worked hard and done well in a particular field that I
    > would have found difficult to have found work in at home without quite
    > high qualifications - so I do appreciate that side of things!

    > I will also come home having to work my way up again and I have
    > recognised that before making the decision. I may not get taken on
    > for jobs that require Canadian experience and/or an indepth
    > understanding of the field from a Canadian point of view either.


    > As I said, the place is not perfect - I know that from my own
    > experience and that of my family and friends who have always lived
    > there. You may see it as politically correct but having lived in
    > places where people from other countries are in fact villified and
    > where human rights do not seem to be that high on the agenda, I am
    > proud that Canada holds firm to alot of its principles - as was shown
    > in the recent Iraq war. Americans are having a tricky time knowing
    > what to think about Canada given its stance on the war and against
    > capitol punishment, the legalisation of gay marriage, etc but I
    > certainly can live with that.


    > Immigration in any country is a tricky and often unfair business and
    > it is worth noting that Canada is by far not the worst. Being Asian in
    > Britain right now and the States is a surefire sign of being a
    > terrorist! Even being black or Chinese Canadian and trying to get over
    > the border to the States has been difficult for several mates of
    > mine. And that's just for a visit!


I was unable to work in Ireland (where I went with my husband) unless
the company proved that an Irish person could not be found to do the
job I had applied for! So please do not patronise me by saying I know
little about my country and/or about immigration issues. I am sorry
things did not work out for you but I think it is unfair for people
(and there are not that many of them) to come on this site and try to
put others off having a go by saying pretty nasty things that are
neither useful or based on most people's reality - as has been shown by
many of the responses here. Productive and helpful comments are what's
needed to support and inform people here - whether they are critical or
positive.