Nightjar

"Earl Evleth" <> wrote in message
news:BC99A6BD.2DE14%...
    > On 7/04/04 0:43, in article 40733276$0$13681$,
    > "nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here> wrote:
    > > Then you haven't read the small print nor some of the threads that have
been
    > > on here. Some of the cross-channel ferry companies have been known to
charge
    > > the difference in cost to the credit card of people who have paid by
card
    > > for a cheap day return and used it as a single.
    > Can you pay cash???

You can. However, these days, trying not to leave a record of crossing the
channel would probably get MI5 watching you as a potential terrorist. :-)

Colin Bignell

Earl Evleth

On 7/04/04 22:39, in article 40746708$0$28402$,
"nightjar .uk.com>" <nightjar@<insert_my_surname_here> wrote:

    >> Can you pay cash???
    >
    > You can. However, these days, trying not to leave a record of crossing the
    > channel would probably get MI5 watching you as a potential terrorist. :-)
    >
    > Colin Bignell


I am curious. We were faced with much the same problem on the TGV.

We like taking the day flight from Boston back to London, but to
come back to Paris we have been taking the train. One way. One way
is very expensive, over 200 euros each, they hit you with the business
rate. I think it would be cheaper to buy a round trip special
and and throw away the ticket we won't use.

The train is convenient since we don`t have to go to and from the airport.

Our last trip in January was Paris => Miami: Miami => Boston and Boston =>
London, on American. I could not get a forth leg back to Paris from
London by air although did not work on that. The trip allows several
days in London, which we like. If one tries to mix airlines the fare
goes too high. It is a lot more expensive doing what we do since
we have to pay for lodgings in Boston and London but added to this
is the TGV fares (2nd class) which are outrageous one way.

I personally thing is fundamentally unfair to have a particular seat
on a transportation system having prices which are much much different,
depending on the rules imposed to merely maximize profits.

Earl

Steve Remington

I discovered these stupid ticketing practices when booking some domestic
flights in the UK. Not only did BA try to rip me off by charging me more
because I was buying my tickets from Australia they also tried to rip me off
because I only wanted a one-way ticket.

The US, UK and where ever else this stupid and unconscionable practise
occurs should take a look at domestic air ticketing in Australia.

Everything is a one-way ticket. A return ticket is merely the sum of the
forward and return journey you take. Here is an example of how a sensible
system works. I have to travel on business regularly. Sometimes I know
that I will be able to meet my return flight with some certainty so in this
case I can book a cheaper, inflexible fare. Other times I think that the
meeting I am attending might go over time so I book a flexible but dearer
fare. The forward journey I almost always book as a cheap inflexible fare
because I am pretty sure that I am going to make the flight. The choice is
mine and the airline charges how it should...that is I pay for the seat on a
plane with the degree of flexibility I require...nothing more, nothing
less...the airline does not try to lock me into something I don't want or
need.

BTW this applies to both major and discount carriers in australia. Have a
look at www.qantas.com.au or www.virginblue.com.au to see how it works.

It wasn't always like this in Australia but in the last few years sanity has
prevailed and to paraphrase the Virgin Blue catch phase "the air is now
fare" :-)

Regards,
Steve
-------------------------------------------
Steve Remington
Hawthorn, Victoria, Australia

(Remember Steve Remington "is" my name
so remove the "notmy" to send an email)
-------------------------------------------
Great spirits have always encountered
violent opposition from mediocre minds.
Albert Einstein
-------------------------------------------

"Earl Evleth" <> wrote in message
news:BC98872D.2DCB2%...
    > With some airlines you are breaking the purchase contract
    > if you don`t use the return ticket! First news to me.
    > Any comments??? Experiences???
    > Earl
    > ***
    > Is justice served by ticket rules?
    > Susan Stellin NYT
    > Tuesday, April 6, 2004
    > NEW YORK Associate Justice Antonin Scalia of the Supreme Court
inadvertently
    > raised a hot-button travel issue last month in explaining why he was not
    > recusing himself from a case involving Vice President Dick Cheney.
    > Offering details about his January duck-hunting trip with the vice
    > president, Scalia disclosed that even though he had flown to Louisiana on
    > the vice president's plane, he bought a round-trip ticket on a commercial
    > airline to return to Washington, because it was less expensive than the
    > one-way fare.
    > That is a tactic familiar to anyone who has discovered that one-way fares
    > can be triple the price of flying round trip. But most travelers probably
    > don't know that five of the six largest U.S. airlines - American,
    > Continental, Delta, Northwest and US Airways - explicitly prohibit buying
a
    > round-trip ticket with the intention of throwing half away.
    > Ed Turner, a spokesman for the Supreme Court, declined to say which
airline
    > Scalia flew. But the two airlines that fly nonstop from New Orleans to
    > Washington are US Airways and United, and United does not the have same
    > policy as its competitors, leaving open the possibility that Scalia didn't
    > skirt any rules.
    > Although it may seem ludicrous that an airline could require passengers to
    > fly both segments of a ticket, the ban on so-called throwaway ticketing is
    > buried in an airline's contract of carriage, an often lengthy, legally
dense
    > document drawn up by each airline outlining the terms of every ticket
sale.
    > Also known as "tariff rules," these policies range from the fees for
excess
    > baggage or for transporting a surfboard to the airline's right to deny
    > boarding to anyone "malodorous."
    > Most airlines post these contracts on their Web sites, and they do enforce
    > their terms, often to the surprise of passengers who don't know such rules
    > exist.
    > Besides the ban on throwaway ticketing, the six major carriers (including
    > United) prohibit "back-to-back ticketing": buying two round-trip tickets
and
    > using half of each to avoid paying for a more expensive ticket that does
not
    > include a Saturday-night stay. The big six also forbid "hidden city
    > ticketing" (sometimes called "point beyond ticketing"): buying a ticket to
a
    > more distant city (San Francisco, say) and then getting off at a stopover
    > point (Chicago) because the San Francisco ticket is cheaper than the one
to
    > Chicago.
    > The ticketing rules are primarily intended to prevent business travelers
    > from buying cheaper leisure fares, and how often they are enforced is a
    > matter of some debate. Tim Wagner, a spokesman for American Airlines, said
    > the carrier could detect back-to-back or hidden-city ticketing more easily
    > than it could someone's buying a round-trip ticket to fly one way. "It's
    > almost impossible for us to know why someone didn't use the second half of
a
    > ticket," Wagner said.
    > But he defended the airline's throwaway ticketing rule. "If somebody books
a
    > round-trip ticket and never intends to fly that second portion, that's
lost
    > revenue for us," he said.
    > The logic of that argument may leave some travelers scratching their
heads,
    > but the airlines do try to enforce these rules, either by imposing
penalties
    > on the passenger or on a travel agent who booked the ticket. Although the
    > penalties vary by airline, the big six all outline various actions they
may
    > take against passengers who violate ticketing rules. Among the options:
    > invalidating the rest of the passenger's ticket; forcing the passenger to
    > pay the difference between the purchased fare and the price of a new
ticket;
    > deleting frequent-flier miles from an account, or revoking the passenger's
    > elite status. To this list, Continental adds a more draconian option:
legal
    > action.
    > As it happens, the courts are not unfamiliar with this matter - despite
    > Scalia's apparent naïveté about throwaway ticketing, even the Supreme
Court
    > has had a brush with the debate. At least two class-action lawsuits
    > challenging these ticketing practices (or penalties) are working their way
    > through the federal courts - one brought by a group of passengers and one
    > filed by a group of travel agents. And an appeal involving one of them
    > reached the nation's highest court.
    > The first case was filed in 1996 by a passenger, Nelson Chase, who was
    > caught flying on a hidden-city ticket by Northwest Airlines. Other
    > passengers later joined as plaintiffs and the defendants now include
    > American, Continental, Delta and US Airways.
    > In the painstaking march to an actual outcome, the case was granted
    > class-action status in May 2002 - a decision the airlines appealed
    > unsuccessfully to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, in
    > Cincinnati. In June, the Supreme Court declined, without comment, to hear
    > another appeal by the airlines. As for what happens next, a New York law
    > firm representing the plaintiffs would not comment, but presumably the
case
    > is proceeding toward trial.
    > The other case was filed in 1999 by a group of travel agents against
    > American Airlines, its parent company and the Airlines Reporting Corp.,
    > which acts as a clearinghouse between the airlines and travel agents; that
    > suit was granted class-action status last July.
    > The plaintiffs claim that after American began charging travel agents
    > penalties for booking tickets that violated ticketing rules, the airline
and
    > Airlines Reporting Corp. threatened to revoke their authorization to issue
    > tickets on American if the agents did not pay the fines - actions the
agents
    > say violate racketeering laws.
    > Theoretically, one of these cases could reach the Supreme Court,
potentially
    > presenting another recusal decision for Scalia. But in practice, these
    > ticketing rules may become moot long before then. Low-fare airlines like
    > JetBlue and Southwest have built successful businesses selling one-way
    > tickets without a premium and cheap last-minutes fares, putting pressure
on
    > their older competitors.
    > The New York Times