Ian-Mstm

> To further demonstrate my point...I calculated N.Y.S. and N.Y.C. taxes
> to go along with the federal. (everything is in U.S. funds) For the
> year in question, 2005, gross income $44,319, filing as married with 2
> children, my Federal, State and City taxes would have amounted to
> $2619 fed + $982 NYS + $689 NYC = $4,290. My Canadian Federal and
> Provincial taxes?????? $8,950. THAT'S 209% OF THE TAX I WOULD PAY IN
> THE U.S....... What else do I need to do to make you folks realize
> the tax burden here is higher. And I didn't even include the OHIP
> health surcharge I paid of $650.
>
> And again, those amounts do not reflect any deductions other than
> personal and family, no mortgage interest etc. The spread would
> be even greater if those items were factored in, because we don't
> have those handy little deductions.
> But, since I plan to live in Florida, with no state income tax,
> and a city with no income tax, my tax burden would be 29% of what
> it is here.

I have enjoyed this exchange tremendously... but the term "OCD" springs
to mind!

Ian

Dakota44

> I have enjoyed this exchange tremendously... but the term "OCD"
> springs to mind!
>
> Ian

Well..there is a tab of OCD in me. But that mostly involves setting
things at right angles and turning off my bedroom light 5 times. lol
But the facts are still the facts. But at this point, I give up. At
least I took the time and trouble to do tax returns for both countries,
including city and state taxes, to prove my point. Some here who
disagree might download the forms and tax tables from Revenue Canada and
do their own comparison. Might be enlightening.

Rete

> Well..there is a tab of OCD in me. But that mostly involves setting
> things at right angles and turning off my bedroom light 5 times. lol
> But the facts are still the facts. But at this point, I give up. At
> least I took the time and trouble to do tax returns for both
> countries, including city and state taxes, to prove my point. Some
> here who disagree might download the forms and tax tables from Revenue
> Canada and do their own comparison. Might be enlightening.

Don't have to. Have been paying both US and Canadian taxes for 8 years.
We enjoy income, pension and rent from both countries.

Dakota44

> Don't have to. Have been paying both US and Canadian taxes for 8
> years. We enjoy income, pension and rent from both countries.

I cannot speak to the tax comparison for your situation..but then my
point has been about families with dependent children (that is where the
huge tax difference is)...which you are not, both collecting pensions
and all. I also have not addressed rental income, or any income other
than earned wages from direct employment. So no matter what, you cannot
compare your tax situation with that of a family with dependent
children, and therefore cannot claim, based on your situation, that such
families are more heavily taxed in the U.S.

Perhaps the deductions and tax rates for your situation are more
comparable to Canada's, but that is not what I was addressing. Frankly,
because I don't
know.

I am intrigued by the "paying taxes in both countries" situation. I
believe that passive income in Canada (rent, interest etc) are not
exempted from taxes in the U.S. even if your domicile is in the U.S.
and that could result in such income being taxed in both places, but not
sure about it. That is certainly an area where your first hand
knowledge would be of great interest to me.

Rete

> I cannot speak to the tax comparison for your situation..but then my
> point has been about families with dependent children (that is where
> the huge tax difference is)...which you are not, both collecting
> pensions and all. I also have not addressed rental income, or any
> income other than earned wages from direct employment. So no matter
> what, you cannot compare your tax situation with that of a family
> with dependent children, and therefore cannot claim, based on your
> situation, that such families are more heavily taxed in the U.S.
>
> Perhaps the deductions and tax rates for your situation are more
> comparable to Canada's, but that is not what I was addressing.
> Frankly, because I don't
> know.
>
> I am intrigued by the "paying taxes in both countries" situation. I
> believe that passive income in Canada (rent, interest etc) are not
> exempted from taxes in the U.S. even if your domicile is in the U.S.
> and that could result in such income being taxed in both places, but
> not sure about it. That is certainly an area where your first hand
> knowledge would be of great interest to me.

No the rental income is only taxed in Canada. As long as the income is
earned in Canada and taxes paid on it there and under the allowed amount
in the US/Can tax treaty, you only pay once. I am not retired as I am
much younger than my husband and still working full time. In fact he is
working full time in the US as well as he will not qualify for social
security until he has worked 40 quarters regardless of his being a USC.
Nor will he qualify for Medicare until that time.

He, however, is a Canadian born in Canada and who lived in Canada until
8 years ago. He had three children all raised in various provinces from
east to west coasts and inbetween as well in many European countries. I
am fully aware of the inability to claim dependents on Canadian returns.

When all is said and done, even with the so-called tax breaks in the US
once you add together the amounts you have to pay for healthcare (even
employer sponsored healthcare today requires that the beneficiary pay
part of it), your co-pays, etc. your debits will be equal to the tax
structure of a Canadian whose healthcare is part of their tax.

I only wonder why you, as a USC, lived and raised children in Canada if
the tax structure was so prohibitive, seeing that you were apparently
born and lived your younger years in the US.

Dakota44

> No the rental income is only taxed in Canada. As long as the income
> is earned in Canada and taxes paid on it there and under the allowed
> amount in the US/Can tax treaty, you only pay once. I am not retired
> as I am much younger than my husband and still working full time. In
> fact he is working full time in the US as well as he will not qualify
> for social security until he has worked 40 quarters regardless of his
> being a USC. Nor will he qualify for Medicare until that time.
>
> He, however, is a Canadian born in Canada and who lived in Canada
> until 8 years ago. He had three children all raised in various
> provinces from east to west coasts and inbetween as well in many
> European countries. I am fully aware of the inability to claim
> dependents on Canadian returns.
>
> When all is said and done, even with the so-called tax breaks in the
> US once you add together the amounts you have to pay for healthcare
> (even employer sponsored healthcare today requires that the
> beneficiary pay part of it), your co-pays, etc. your debits will be
> equal to the tax structure of a Canadian whose healthcare is part of
> their tax.
>
> I only wonder why you, as a USC, lived and raised children in Canada
> if the tax structure was so prohibitive, seeing that you were
> apparently born and lived your younger years in the US.

I agree 100% that health care costs will eat up most of any tax savings,
and that's sad really, but reality. I do pay over $200 a month for
dental and prescription coverage. I also pay, thanks to a change in the
rules, a surtax for Health care on my tax return. But still, the cost
will be much higher in the U.S. as you correctly point out. Truth is,
I'd probably be wise to apply for immigration for my wife and kids to
Canada for that reason alone. Taxes aside. I think the thing that
galls me the most here is that whether you have kids or not, you get no
credit for the cost of raising them, unless you fall below a certain
income level and receive monthly Baby Bonus checks. I have never been
in that situation, so I got nada.

As for living and raising children here, I was married to a Canadian.
She was homesick, so we moved to Canada. I always made good money, so
even with the taxes I couldn't cry too much. I did like the health
care bonus, in spite of the bad experiences some have posted here. I
have always gotten far more than my money's worth out of the system with
no problems at all. I am sure there are many who have had the opposite
experience. I suppose that's the rub, we all have our own experiences
and form opinions based on that. I'm guilty no doubt.

And for the record, I have not been trying to be difficult with you,
and I hope you don't think I have. I am just someone who gets up
for vigorous debate and discussion. Might be my least endearing
quality.