Jura

Hi!
After a 2 yeras long break in traveling we seem to have 1 month free in
december. The plan is to go to Sudan.
I havent checked any info about the country for 2 years. Any good links for
backpackers?
What s the cheapest flight to S. from continental Europe ?
How far south can one get ? Kusti? (more). I saw a railway to Nyala. Does
it work?
I heard it's possible to go to Kusti by Nile (some cruises on an old
steamer)(sounds perfect, doesn't it?)
Are there any limitationns with going west (El fasher -> Chad border)?
I willl be gratefull for ANY info regarding the country, personal
observations, travelers tips, www links ( & dont sent me google ,pls)

BEst regards

JUra ICQ 117507226

Jean-Marc V. Liotier

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:10:17 +0100, JUra wrote:
    >
    > Are there any limitationns with going west (El fasher -> Chad border)?

A few months ago it looked like the Abeche-El Fasher crossing was feasible
again, but in the last weeks the situation there has severely
deteriorated. There is right now fighting in Darfur and large unknown
numbers of refugees fleeing across the border with Chad. A couple of NGOs
scouting the areas have reported dire sanitary situations in Tine and
other villages near the border. But they seem lack even the means to
extensively assess the situation let alone do something significant about
it.

"Diplomats have described the fighting in Darfur as "ethnic cleansing"
with Arab militias, possibly backed by the government, destroying entire
villages. UNHCR chief Ruud Lubbers says some 500,000 people have fled
their homes. The chaos there is in contrast to the situation in the south,
where an end to 20 years of civil war is now in sight."
Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3266893.stm

So it is definitely not the right time to visit Darfur. Too bad, it really
looks like an interesting region and it's high on my list of places to
visit next time I go across the Mediterranean...

Meeso

Hi there, Jura, John, & Jean.
it depends on from where you're going to Sudan.
But anyway, I think it's even nicer to go all the way through Cairo.
My plane is: visit "Nuweiba" (some splendid red sea place in Sinai),
then go to Cairo. to go to Sudan you have to take at least 3
transportations from Cairo.

1) first you take the train from "Ramses station" to Aswan (south
Egypt), a second class is quite good (for less than 10 U.S. $). takes
some 10 hours or so.

2) then you take the ferry from Aswan to "Wadi Halfa" (north Sudan,
they'll check the passport and Visa in between), I'll stay in the 3rd
class (the roof, some couches for sleeping, chairs & the like), costs 15
US $. not quite sure how much time does it take, but at least I think
will be 24 hours (?) (I better check it out)
However, you have to get the ticket for the ferry from "Ramsis station"
as well (in Cairo) - you can't get it from Aswan two minuets before it
goes. but there is a place in Aswan which you can get the ticket from.
However, if you'll get from Cairo, the "Nile Boats" office (right in
Ramsis station) opens only in Saturday (from 8 to 12 am). you get the
ticket from there. But the ferry goes from Aswan in Monday (12 am). so
you have two options if you'll get the ticket from Cairo:
get the ticket Saturday very early in the morning and also travel to
Aswan the same morning. Spend Saturday night and all Sunday there and
then travel to Wadi Halfa in Monday. (OR) get the ticket Saturday from
Ramsis station and spend the rest of Sat. and some of Sun. in Cairo, the
take the Sun night train to Aswan, and be there Mon. right after 12.
Of course, you can avoid all that by having the ferry ticket in Sat. for
the second Monday next to it. then you'll have a whole week to spend in
Cairo or Aswan or even elsewhere.

3) once you got to Wadi Halfa, you're already inside Sudan. One have to
start the trip immediately. If your goal is Khartoum, you have two
options:
the train directly to Khartoum. This is a good option for me because,
the train goes after one day from the ferry's arrival. so you have time
to see Wadi Halfa. also, the train is quite good because it's quite bad
!!! I mean that, it's not a very *efficient* train. & it takes something
like 13 hours at the best. and you see many splendid sites in the way (I
have to say that most of it is dessert). & after all, you can
communicate with people. many years ago, there used to be a nice
*Cafeteria* and one could order Beer and other Sudanese drinks. But of
course not anymore with the bloody Islamic government.
The train is even more efficient now than before, I heard a very nice
stories about this particular trip in former times, when the train had
to stop completely for - sometimes - a whole day or a couple of them,
fixing things. And of course, every one talked to everyone. there were
many foreigners go to Sudan with that train in these times. and they
all just went of the train and enjoyed a beautiful fresh air and a so
shining sky at nights with starts every where. & had merry all the time
for continuous days. they got drunk, spoke about every thing, knew each
other, and some of them became intimate friends afterwards. My aunt
remembers, and emphasizes that she always appreciated these times more
than when she avoided them by the airplane, and went directly to her
purposes of visiting. and then she told me about the typical event that
happened when the train stopped in the night: usually everyone just go
out and enjoy the fresh air like I siad, But also, some of them (like my
Aunt here) also slept outside. & in many cases, they woke up suddenly by
the screams of others inside the train, (who were also sleeping),
calling for them to catch the train that's going to move now again. &
the train is already moving slowly (like in postwar Romantic films), &
they're all running after it, jumping inside while helping other who are
still out to catch with it. she told me that, although it's very fatal
if one is left in there, in the big lifeless desert. they always slept
very easily and assured. and all of them, with out really saying it,
wanted to experience the success of catching the train when it moves
suddenly. she said she know that because she felt like that, and because
all of them woke up with that very deep, sincere, and unjustified
smile ...

Ahh, sorry, so, ah:
the other option is that you take a Bus, immediately after you leave the
ferry to a place between Halfa and Khartoum called "Atbara", & then from
there, take another bus to Khartoum. this option is a lot faster than
the train, but it said to be less comfortable. the chairs of the bus
seem to be not very comfortable, and the way is quite long and take a
long duration of time.

For years, they always announce warnings and the like. but I know that,
if you really want to go south (of course to some limit) you can do it,
anytime. & I heard the Southerns like it a lot.
the serious west problems are quite recent so, I'm not quite sure how is
it in there now, but, about 3 years ago, you could go to any place in
the beautiful west. with so worm people there.
I'm just convinced that, you can go anywhere if you really want. & I
surely hate the touristy attitude.

Links for you:

http://www.geocities.com/sudan_angel/index.html
http://www.find-our-community.net/re.../Sudan_map.htm
http://www.traveldocs.com/sd/
http://www.sudan.net/
http://www.1uptravel.com/international/africa/sudan/

there are some more, but I have to check them first.
Let me hear you feedbacks. I'm new to the thing too.

Best,

Jacuo

Uzytkownik "meeso" <> napisal w wiadomosci
news:...
    > Hi there, Jura, John, & Jean.
    > it depends on from where you're going to Sudan.

I did the trip last year ...

    > they'll check the passport and Visa in between), I'll stay in the 3rd
    > class (the roof, some couches for sleeping, chairs & the like), costs 15
    > US $. not quite sure how much time does it take, but at least I think
    > will be 24 hours (?) (I better check it out)

There is only I and II class - I class in the cabin II class in thecoomon
room - both with air con and
compulrory meal

    > !!! I mean that, it's not a very *efficient* train. & it takes something
    > like 13 hours at the best. and you see many splendid sites in the way (I

24 hours if anything goes OK.

    > *Cafeteria* and one could order Beer and other Sudanese drinks. But of
    > course not anymore with the bloody Islamic government.

NO ALCOHOL allowed in Sudan !

    > the other option is that you take a Bus, immediately after you leave the
    > ferry to a place between Halfa and Khartoum called "Atbara", & then from

There is also bus to Dongola - very, very uncomfortable, but this is
anothere route.

    > For years, they always announce warnings and the like. but I know that,
    > if you really want to go south (of course to some limit) you can do it,
    > anytime. & I heard the Southerns like it a lot.

I don't think so. They can even not sell you ticket to south ( samotimes
they want to see your
permit ). We were kicked off by military from Kassala.

Meeso

Hi Jacuo, (I just realised that all participants in that thread have a
name that starts with J, except for me !!).

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:12:23 +0100
"Jacuo" <> wrote:

    > There is only I and II class - I class in the cabin II class in
    > thecoomon room - both with air con and
    > compulrory meal

No, there is a 3rd class, but maybe it's only applicable for
Egyptians & Sudanese. they stay at the roof, and probably get no
meals.

    > There is also bus to Dongola - very, very uncomfortable, but this is
    > anothere route.

Yes, I'm going to Dongola, but on the way back.

meeso wrote:
    > > For years, they always announce warnings and the like. but I know
    > > that, if you really want to go south (of course to some limit) you
    > > can do it, anytime. & I heard the Southerns like it a lot.
    >
    > I don't think so. They can even not sell you ticket to south (
    > samotimes they want to see your
    > permit ). We were kicked off by military from Kassala.

Of course it's not entirely ease to get much into the south, but also
last year, a friend of mine went soooo deep into the south, at some
point she was also kicked out. but she did it, and saw many things
there. It's not going to be very comfortable for sure, It's not supposed
to be. but it's a trip that some do, and enjoy it like it is with all
its troubles and perils. & some times, you can get permits too, but
these will be too limited, unless you're useful to them, or doing some
research there.

Best,

Jacuo

Uzytkownik "meeso" <> napisal w wiadomosci
news:...
    > Hi Jacuo, (I just realised that all participants in that thread have a
    > name that starts with J, except for me !!).
    > On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:12:23 +0100
    > "Jacuo" <> wrote:
    > > There is only I and II class - I class in the cabin II class in
    > > thecoomon room - both with air con and
    > > compulrory meal
    > No, there is a 3rd class, but maybe it's only applicable for
    > Egyptians & Sudanese. they stay at the roof, and probably get no
    > meals.

We were 2 times told, that there is only I and II class. On the roof were
only some Europeans ( with ticket for II class ), and in II class you can
seat where you want . Anyway during my return class they were collecting
money for poor woman with child who has no ticket ( I can`t image how she
enetered the ship ), and they were collection for II class ticket - why not
for III class if there is any ... But mayabe yo are right :-)

    > > There is also bus to Dongola - very, very uncomfortable, but this is
    > > anothere route.
    > Yes, I'm going to Dongola, but on the way back.


I think that it will be worse. In Wadi Halfa possibilites to refresh after
trip are very limited.

    > > I don't think so. They can even not sell you ticket to south (
    > > samotimes they want to see your
    > > permit ). We were kicked off by military from Kassala.
    > Of course it's not entirely ease to get much into the south, but also
    > last year, a friend of mine went soooo deep into the south, at some
    > point she was also kicked out. but she did it, and saw many things
    > there. It's not going to be very comfortable for sure, It's not supposed
    > to be. but it's a trip that some do, and enjoy it like it is with all
    > its troubles and perils. & some times, you can get permits too, but
    > these will be too limited, unless you're useful to them, or doing some
    > research there.

If your lucky ...
My friend was with his wife ( on their honeymoon ), so we didn`t want to
make to risky things :-)
But you have to register in every place ...