Theguitardoctor

Hi there,



Just thought I'd post these guidelines for anyone in the process of
submiiting an LTBV or considering, or with an application already
submitted...it's not just pessimism, it's advice I received face to face
with an immigration officer in the Wellington Business Unit (we only
rent a couple of miles from them, hence the in-person visit). I won't
print her name as its seen as unethical. We went in to withdraw the LTBV
basically, but just prior to that we decided to glean some information
to make sure that we weren't about to make a mistake. The discretionary
guidelines for "Benefit to NZ" have certainly tightened up of late, and
affect anyone currently not with approval....



Here's the information in summary.....



No matter how many approvals or letters of support you have from the
local Economic Development Agency or otherwise for your application, it
will not be dealt with as a priority, they are all dealt with in
chronological order so as to be fair to the other applicants. *This has
been conflicting as I was told by the same dept that it would help
prioritise the application. However, this lady is now away from the
Business Unit, so I have to go by the other immigration officers
advice.* This support suggestion may have been a way to pacify me at the
time as we were in a bit of a unique situation.....



NZIS is not interested in sole traders (no matter how they did in their
country of origin)...they need to see greater yields from a business
than self sufficiency / paying tax no matter how skilled or in demand
your skills are. They need to see self efficiency and a healthy profit
(eg $40,000 profit...e.g $30,000 as self sufficiency and $10,000 profit
at the lower end of the scale). It's not impossible, but if you are re-
investing in the business, then it's not exactly ideal to have a
stipulation of this sort hanging over you.



NZIS are ideally looking for businesses that will employ Kiwi nationals
within 3 years; if this is not the case then PR will certainly
questionable under the Entrepreneur category.



You will need extensive proof that your business and/or skill is an
absolute shortage in that particular area of NZ. Even the "introduction
of competition to an area of NZ" is not sufficient anymore it would
seem. Market research facts and figures such as market share, likely
competitors etc, alone are also insufficient, you need industry and
market support (as in letters of prospective customers etc) at the very
least. It seems that its almost a pre-requisite that you now visit NZ
prior to submitting the business plan in order that you have this info
to present with the application.



The LTBV is a discretionary application, which is what the new SMC has
turned the Gen Skills category into...basically the guidelines are so
vague, you will never know whether your business /skills are classed as
viable or needed until the NZIS approve them. There's no point in
interpreting what the NZIS actually want as you will never know - it's a
constantly evolving criteria.



We've been unfortunate in our circumstances and they are pretty unique,
but if this information is provided to warn anyone else of coming over
to NZ with no firm job offer or work permit (ie on a Working Hol Visa or
Tourist Visa). The NZIS has seriously tightened things up and this has
filtered down to agencies and employers curtailing permanent work offers
to anyone not with PR. You may get temp work on a work permit, or in a
few certain cases you may get a perm job offer with an understanding
employer, but on the whole for the average person (skilled non-shortage
graduate) this is on the decline unless you are shortage or priority
applicants.



Rich.

Theguitardoctor

Originally posted by theguitardoctor

    > Hi there,


    > Just thought I'd post these guidelines for anyone in the process of
    > submiiting an LTBV or considering, or with an application already
    > submitted...it's not just pessimism, it's advice I received face to
    > face with an immigration officer in the Wellington Business Unit (we
    > only rent a couple of miles from them, hence the in-person visit). I
    > won't print her name as its seen as unethical. We went in to withdraw
    > the LTBV basically, but just prior to that we decided to glean some
    > information to make sure that we weren't about to make a mistake. The
    > discretionary guidelines for "Benefit to NZ" have certainly tightened
    > up of late, and affect anyone currently not with approval....


    > Here's the information in summary.....


    > No matter how many approvals or letters of support you have from the
    > local Economic Development Agency or otherwise for your application,
    > it will not be dealt with as a priority, they are all dealt with in
    > chronological order so as to be fair to the other applicants. *This
    > has been conflicting as I was told by the same dept that it would help
    > prioritise the application. However, this lady is now away from the
    > Business Unit, so I have to go by the other immigration officers
    > advice.* This support suggestion may have been a way to pacify me at
    > the time as we were in a bit of a unique situation.....


    > NZIS is not interested in sole traders (no matter how they did in
    > their country of origin)...they need to see greater yields from a
    > business than self sufficiency / paying tax no matter how skilled or
    > in demand your skills are. They need to see self efficiency and a
    > healthy profit (eg $40,000 profit...e.g $30,000 as self sufficiency
    > and $10,000 profit at the lower end of the scale). It's not
    > impossible, but if you are re-investing in the business, then it's not
    > exactly ideal to have a stipulation of this sort hanging over you.


    > NZIS are ideally looking for businesses that will employ Kiwi
    > nationals within 3 years; if this is not the case then PR will
    > certainly questionable under the Entrepreneur category.


    > You will need extensive proof that your business and/or skill is an
    > absolute shortage in that particular area of NZ. Even the
    > "introduction of competition to an area of NZ" is not sufficient
    > anymore it would seem. Market research facts and figures such as
    > market share, likely competitors etc, alone are also insufficient, you
    > need industry and market support (as in letters of prospective
    > customers etc) at the very least. It seems that its almost a pre-
    > requisite that you now visit NZ prior to submitting the business plan
    > in order that you have this info to present with the application.


    > The LTBV is a discretionary application, which is what the new SMC has
    > turned the Gen Skills category into...basically the guidelines are so
    > vague, you will never know whether your business /skills are classed
    > as viable or needed until the NZIS approve them. There's no point in
    > interpreting what the NZIS actually want as you will never know - it's
    > a constantly evolving criteria.


    > We've been unfortunate in our circumstances and they are pretty
    > unique, but if this information is provided to warn anyone else of
    > coming over to NZ with no firm job offer or work permit (ie on a
    > Working Hol Visa or Tourist Visa). The NZIS has seriously tightened
    > things up and this has filtered down to agencies and employers
    > curtailing permanent work offers to anyone not with PR. You may get
    > temp work on a work permit, or in a few certain cases you may get a
    > perm job offer with an understanding employer, but on the whole for
    > the average person (skilled non-shortage graduate) this is on the
    > decline unless you are shortage or priority applicants.


    > Rich.



It's ever likely I'm the only one in this situation with no replies
after a good 24 hours posting.....oh well, I'm laughing about the whole
thing now...the novelty of Wellington wore off quickly and we wanted to
head to Auckland anyway...at least now it's just a holiday.



Good luck to anyone else, hope you don't experience what we did,



Rich.

Jamie Smith

HI Rich



Youa re mainly correct, however the only area I would suggest
differently is that it is possibel to obtain LTBV without creation of
employment. Export brokers and specialised ICT businesses are the
obvious ones.



In your case, you might have a bit of an issue with NZIS understanding
the market and accepting your place in it. That comes down to research,
preparation and presentation.



I guess you now wish that you'd known a few more things a bit earlier.



Last point is that your case was lodged prior to introduction of new
laws and NZIS' Customised Service, which allows prioritisation of cases.
They generally insist on dealing with old cases as per old processes.



Some LTBVs lodged in October November 2002 are not going to be finalised
before May 2004.



In that regard you are a bit more fortunate than some others!



Best of luck for the future. I have a new idea for you, catch is
you'll have to catch up with me when you're in Auckland and I'll share
it with you then.



Nothing like a little bit of antici

Theguitardoctor

Originally posted by Jamie Smith

    > HI Rich


    > Youa re mainly correct, however the only area I would suggest
    > differently is that it is possibel to obtain LTBV without creation of
    > employment. Export brokers and specialised ICT businesses are the
    > obvious ones.


    > In your case, you might have a bit of an issue with NZIS understanding
    > the market and accepting your place in it. That comes down to
    > research, preparation and presentation.


    > I guess you now wish that you'd known a few more things a bit earlier.


    > Last point is that your case was lodged prior to introduction of new
    > laws and NZIS' Customised Service, which allows prioritisation of
    > cases. They generally insist on dealing with old cases as per old
    > processes.


    > Some LTBVs lodged in October November 2002 are not going to be
    > finalised before May 2004.


    > In that regard you are a bit more fortunate than some others!


    > Best of luck for the future. I have a new idea for you, catch is
    > you'll have to catch up with me when you're in Auckland and I'll share
    > it with you then.


    > Nothing like a little bit of antici

    > .

    > .

    > .

    > .

    > .

    > pation


    > Regards





Hi Jamie,



The NZIS did mention export businesses as an example, but it's fairly
obvious that I wont fall into exportation for quite few years yet, and
only when I finally do break into manufacturing will the exporting be on
a very small level. However, this is very unlikely within 3 years, so I
wouldn't qualify under NZIS guidelines with regards to this.

I personally don't think there is any problem at all with the market
research and support that I have put forward for the business - the
musicians are crying out for a lutheir/repairer here so there is a
definite market for my skills. However, realistically I won't hit the
level of earnings and profit that NZIS are looking for within the 3
years - IMO this figure should be quoted on the "Guidelines" booklet, it
would have saved me (and probably many others) coming this far and
losing as much as we have. I would certainly be self supportive within
the 3 years, but as the rules are ever changing, I really don't fancy
the thought of investing 3 years hard work into a business for some
beauracrat to turn around and announce that the criteria for PR has
changed again and I now don't meet it....

At the end of it we'll probably see more of NZ than most NZers ever do
by taking the next 3 months to tour the islands, so that's one benefit.

The UK has it's faults and they are numerous, but it certainly does do
more for the small business owner in respect of taxation and the like,
so without the pressure from something like NZIS guidleines I am able to
invest in my business without thought of minimum earnings etc, something
I am clearly not free to do in NZ.



Oh well, life experience and all that. Thanks for the offer of another
idea, but I have to admit that I am done with New Zealand, and all
geared up to pick up my UK business when I return. I've had many a happy
email from previous customers, so maybe the whole thing was to show me
that I didn't have it so bad in the first place.



Thanks for your help along the way...I'll give you a shout when we
hit Auckland,



regards, Rich.