Sylviabrowne

listen and weep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.theterryandersonshow.com/








Oliver Costich <olc-> wrote in message news:<>...
    > On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:16:14 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
    > <root@localhost.> wrote:
    >
    > >On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:55:08 -0500, Oliver Costich
    > ><olc-> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:20:01 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
    > >><root@localhost.> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:38:19 -0500, Oliver Costich
    > >>><olc-> wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:32:43 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
    > >>>><root@localhost.> wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:27:02 -0500, Oliver Costich
    > >>>>><olc-> wrote:
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>The taxpayers subsidize this because of "free" social programs.
    > >>>>>>>Eliminate the "free" social programs and taxpayers no longer subsidize
    > >>>>>>>anything.
    > >>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>It's not going to happen.
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>This would be the thing I'd be pissed about, not illegal immigration.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Be pissed all you want. The US population will not support people here
    > >>>>starving or seriously ill without providing relief.
    > >>>>The only solution is to prevent their being here. A "solution" which
    > >>>>is unrealistic is no solution at all.
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>Your solution is, however, equally irrealistic unless you want to
    > >>>spend 10 times more in enforcement than what the illegals cost.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>Let's see the math. I don't think it would cost over $100 billion a
    > >>year.
    > >>
    > >
    > >I think it would. Probably even more. The War on Illegal Immigration
    > >would be a failure for the same reason the War on Drugs is a failure:
    > >it goes against human nature.
    >
    > Not remotely similar. I'd still like to see the estimates of cost.
    > Finding employers of illegals is not difficult if we put the proper
    > systems in place to check credentials.

Oliver Costich

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 03:16:51 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
<root@localhost.> wrote:

    >On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 19:01:04 -0500, Oliver Costich
    ><olc-> wrote:
    >>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:16:14 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
    >><root@localhost.> wrote:
    >>>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:55:08 -0500, Oliver Costich
    >>><olc-> wrote:
    >>>>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:20:01 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
    >>>><root@localhost.> wrote:
    >>>>>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:38:19 -0500, Oliver Costich
    >>>>><olc-> wrote:
    >>>>>>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:32:43 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
    >>>>>><root@localhost.> wrote:
    >>>>>>>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:27:02 -0500, Oliver Costich
    >>>>>>><olc-> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>>The taxpayers subsidize this because of "free" social programs.
    >>>>>>>>>Eliminate the "free" social programs and taxpayers no longer subsidize
    >>>>>>>>>anything.
    >>>>>>>>It's not going to happen.
    >>>>>>>This would be the thing I'd be pissed about, not illegal immigration.
    >>>>>>Be pissed all you want. The US population will not support people here
    >>>>>>starving or seriously ill without providing relief.
    >>>>>>The only solution is to prevent their being here. A "solution" which
    >>>>>>is unrealistic is no solution at all.
    >>>>>Your solution is, however, equally irrealistic unless you want to
    >>>>>spend 10 times more in enforcement than what the illegals cost.
    >>>>Let's see the math. I don't think it would cost over $100 billion a
    >>>>year.
    >>>I think it would. Probably even more. The War on Illegal Immigration
    >>>would be a failure for the same reason the War on Drugs is a failure:
    >>>it goes against human nature.
    >>Not remotely similar. I'd still like to see the estimates of cost.
    >>Finding employers of illegals is not difficult if we put the proper
    >>systems in place to check credentials.
    >How much does the current immigration enforcement agency cost? How
    >many illegals are they able to apprehend annually?

Like I said, show me the numbers. The total budget is under $7 billion
for ALL activities, not just enforcement. Enforcement is likely
substantially less than half of that. The real problem is that there
is no intent to enforce the laws.

By even the most favorable estimates, illegals cost more than $11
billion in publicly funded social costs. The additional costs born by
the taxpayers, like increased health care costs and the costs of crime
committed, are significant as well.

You don't show the math because either you don't have it or it
contradicts your position.

Socialism is a Mental Disease

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:58:12 -0500, Oliver Costich
<olc-> wrote:
    >>How much does the current immigration enforcement agency cost? How
    >>many illegals are they able to apprehend annually?
    >Like I said, show me the numbers. The total budget is under $7 billion
    >for ALL activities, not just enforcement. Enforcement is likely
    >substantially less than half of that.

I don't know the numbers. That's why I asked.

    >The real problem is that there
    >is no intent to enforce the laws.

Which is obviously wrong. Laws are to be enforced or scrapped off the
books.

    >By even the most favorable estimates, illegals cost more than $11
    >billion in publicly funded social costs.

Only because of socialist programs. I am, first and foremost, against
*ALL* kinds of socialism. It is for this reason that illegal
immigration is nothing more than a very drop in an ocean of political
concern for me.

    >You don't show the math because either you don't have it or it
    >contradicts your position.

My position is that in a fully capitalist society, immigrants wouldn't
impose any costs on taxpayers. Given that I favor a fully capitalist
society, illegal immigration is kind of irrelevant to me.

Madeira

Oliver Costich <olc-> wrote in message news:<>...
    > On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 03:16:51 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
    > <root@localhost.> wrote:
    >
    > >On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 19:01:04 -0500, Oliver Costich
    > ><olc-> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 21:16:14 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
    > >><root@localhost.> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:55:08 -0500, Oliver Costich
    > >>><olc-> wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:20:01 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
    > >>>><root@localhost.> wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 19:38:19 -0500, Oliver Costich
    > >>>>><olc-> wrote:
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 17:32:43 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
    > >>>>>><root@localhost.> wrote:
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:27:02 -0500, Oliver Costich
    > >>>>>>><olc-> wrote:
    > >>>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>>>The taxpayers subsidize this because of "free" social programs.
    > >>>>>>>>>Eliminate the "free" social programs and taxpayers no longer subsidize
    > >>>>>>>>>anything.
    > >>>>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>>It's not going to happen.
    > >>>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>
    > >>>>>>>This would be the thing I'd be pissed about, not illegal immigration.
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>Be pissed all you want. The US population will not support people here
    > >>>>>>starving or seriously ill without providing relief.
    > >>>>>>The only solution is to prevent their being here. A "solution" which
    > >>>>>>is unrealistic is no solution at all.
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>Your solution is, however, equally irrealistic unless you want to
    > >>>>>spend 10 times more in enforcement than what the illegals cost.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Let's see the math. I don't think it would cost over $100 billion a
    > >>>>year.
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>I think it would. Probably even more. The War on Illegal Immigration
    > >>>would be a failure for the same reason the War on Drugs is a failure:
    > >>>it goes against human nature.
    > >>
    > >>Not remotely similar. I'd still like to see the estimates of cost.
    > >>Finding employers of illegals is not difficult if we put the proper
    > >>systems in place to check credentials.
    > >>
    > >
    > >How much does the current immigration enforcement agency cost? How
    > >many illegals are they able to apprehend annually?
    >
    > Like I said, show me the numbers. The total budget is under $7 billion
    > for ALL activities, not just enforcement. Enforcement is likely
    > substantially less than half of that. The real problem is that there
    > is no intent to enforce the laws.
    >
    > By even the most favorable estimates, illegals cost more than $11
    > billion in publicly funded social costs. The additional costs born by
    > the taxpayers, like increased health care costs and the costs of crime
    > committed, are significant as well.
    >
    > You don't show the math because either you don't have it or it
    > contradicts your position.



You are quite correct re: the financial burden. It's exhorbitant.
How about also taking a look at the societal burden which some would
say is even worse:

http://www.predatoryaliens.com/

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org...mevictims.html

Illegals must leave!!

Oliver Costich

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:45:02 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
<root@localhost.> wrote:

    >On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:58:12 -0500, Oliver Costich
    ><olc-> wrote:
    >>>How much does the current immigration enforcement agency cost? How
    >>>many illegals are they able to apprehend annually?
    >>Like I said, show me the numbers. The total budget is under $7 billion
    >>for ALL activities, not just enforcement. Enforcement is likely
    >>substantially less than half of that.
    >I don't know the numbers. That's why I asked.
    >>The real problem is that there
    >>is no intent to enforce the laws.
    >Which is obviously wrong. Laws are to be enforced or scrapped off the
    >books.
    >>By even the most favorable estimates, illegals cost more than $11
    >>billion in publicly funded social costs.
    >Only because of socialist programs. I am, first and foremost, against
    >*ALL* kinds of socialism. It is for this reason that illegal
    >immigration is nothing more than a very drop in an ocean of political
    >concern for me.
    >>You don't show the math because either you don't have it or it
    >>contradicts your position.
    >My position is that in a fully capitalist society, immigrants wouldn't
    >impose any costs on taxpayers. Given that I favor a fully capitalist
    >society, illegal immigration is kind of irrelevant to me.

Except that the world you postulate doesn't exist so any conclusions
you draw from your philosophy are moot.

Socialism is a Mental Disease

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:24:06 -0500, Oliver Costich
<olc-> wrote:
    >>My position is that in a fully capitalist society, immigrants wouldn't
    >>impose any costs on taxpayers. Given that I favor a fully capitalist
    >>society, illegal immigration is kind of irrelevant to me.
    >Except that the world you postulate doesn't exist so any conclusions
    >you draw from your philosophy are moot.

Why would a capitalist try to solve a problem related to socialism? It
is beneficial to the capitalist to have socialism create as many
problems as possible, wouldn't you think?

Fatman

    > The President
    > The White House
    > 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
    > Washington, DC 20500
    > To: Mr. President:
    > Please withdraw your support for efforts to give amnesty to illegal
    > aliens.
    > Secretary of State Colin Powell said in Mexico that we could move
    > forward on an amnesty because we have made progress on securing out
    > borders. What progress?
    > The number of illegal crossers keeps growing. Over one million people
    > were apprehended in 2003. Illegal aliens from Mexico accounted for 92
    > percent but the remaining eight percent were foreign nationals from
    > 192 countries!
    > Any guest worker proposal that gives legal status to those who came
    > here illegally is an amnesty. This is a reward for those who broke our
    > laws and punishment for the millions of legal immigrants who followed
    > the rules. That is why Americans overwhelmingly oppose amnesty
    > programs.
    > Each offer of amnesty encourages even more illegal immigration. That
    > is why illegal immigration increased significantly after you made your
    > proposal.
    > The words of former President Ronald Reagan are still true today:
    > "America has lost control of its own borders. No nation can do that
    > and survive." Reagan later publicly conceded that the 1986 amnesty was
    > the worst decision of his presidency.
    > It is time to show leadership and stop illegal immigration.
    > Please withdraw your support for efforts to give amnesty to illegal
    > aliens.

I can't be bothered to read through the rest of the posts on this thread
I just want to say that much of the American economy is based on illegal
immigration and if you'd heard of a few things such as NAFTA, the WTO,
the IMF and the world bank you would realise that South America has, for
an extensive period of time been crudely exploited by America. Plus, you
quote Ronald Reagan, he was the President who caused America to be
condemned by the world court for terrorism (the only country to have
been) for the invasion of Nicaragua.

Oliver Costich

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:34:23 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
<root@localhost.> wrote:

    >On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:24:06 -0500, Oliver Costich
    ><olc-> wrote:
    >>>My position is that in a fully capitalist society, immigrants wouldn't
    >>>impose any costs on taxpayers. Given that I favor a fully capitalist
    >>>society, illegal immigration is kind of irrelevant to me.
    >>Except that the world you postulate doesn't exist so any conclusions
    >>you draw from your philosophy are moot.
    >Why would a capitalist try to solve a problem related to socialism? It
    >is beneficial to the capitalist to have socialism create as many
    >problems as possible, wouldn't you think?


To what end?

Oliver Costich

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:21:39 +0000, fatman
<member26141@british_expats.com> wrote:

    >> The President
    >> The White House
    >> 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
    >> Washington, DC 20500
    >> To: Mr. President:
    >> Please withdraw your support for efforts to give amnesty to illegal
    >> aliens.
    >> Secretary of State Colin Powell said in Mexico that we could move
    >> forward on an amnesty because we have made progress on securing out
    >> borders. What progress?
    >> The number of illegal crossers keeps growing. Over one million people
    >> were apprehended in 2003. Illegal aliens from Mexico accounted for 92
    >> percent but the remaining eight percent were foreign nationals from
    >> 192 countries!
    >> Any guest worker proposal that gives legal status to those who came
    >> here illegally is an amnesty. This is a reward for those who broke our
    >> laws and punishment for the millions of legal immigrants who followed
    >> the rules. That is why Americans overwhelmingly oppose amnesty
    >> programs.
    >> Each offer of amnesty encourages even more illegal immigration. That
    >> is why illegal immigration increased significantly after you made your
    >> proposal.
    >> The words of former President Ronald Reagan are still true today:
    >> "America has lost control of its own borders. No nation can do that
    >> and survive." Reagan later publicly conceded that the 1986 amnesty was
    >> the worst decision of his presidency.
    >> It is time to show leadership and stop illegal immigration.
    >> Please withdraw your support for efforts to give amnesty to illegal
    >> aliens.
    >I can't be bothered to read through the rest of the posts on this thread
    >I just want to say that much of the American economy is based on illegal
    >immigration and if you'd heard of a few things such as NAFTA, the WTO,
    >the IMF and the world bank you would realise that South America has, for
    >an extensive period of time been crudely exploited by America. Plus, you
    >quote Ronald Reagan, he was the President who caused America to be
    >condemned by the world court for terrorism (the only country to have
    >been) for the invasion of Nicaragua.


And your point re illegals is?

Socialism is a Mental Disease

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:48:02 -0500, Oliver Costich
<olc-> wrote:
    >On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:34:23 GMT, Socialism is a Mental Disease
    ><root@localhost.> wrote:
    >>On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:24:06 -0500, Oliver Costich
    >><olc-> wrote:
    >>>>My position is that in a fully capitalist society, immigrants wouldn't
    >>>>impose any costs on taxpayers. Given that I favor a fully capitalist
    >>>>society, illegal immigration is kind of irrelevant to me.
    >>>Except that the world you postulate doesn't exist so any conclusions
    >>>you draw from your philosophy are moot.
    >>Why would a capitalist try to solve a problem related to socialism? It
    >>is beneficial to the capitalist to have socialism create as many
    >>problems as possible, wouldn't you think?
    >To what end?

To break the "back" of the socialist programs.