M

My grandmother was born in Canada. She moved to the US and married a US
citizen. My mother was born while my grandmother was still a Canadian
citizen. From what I've been reading around here, my mother can apply for
Canadian (dual) citizenship. I was born after 1977 and I think I can
register and retain under section 8 to get citizenship once my mother
receives hers. Now, the requirements for the register/retain is to reside in
Canada for one year prior to applying. Does anyone know if this one year is
a full calendar year or do they care about vacations or visiting family
outside Canada and such? I'm curious how picky they plan on being about that
one year.

Also, are there any things I need to think about with this arrangement? It
seems pretty straight forward after looking at the forms required and such.

Thanks for the help!!

-Matt

M

I just reread my own post and I guess I should clarify my question. In order
for me to retain my citizenship, I must reside in Canada for a year prior to
submitting the form. I'm currently a US citizen. I know I can visit Canada
for 6 months. Would I just need to leave for a day and come back? Or would I
be able to extend my stay due to my attempt to fulfill the requirements to
retain my Canadian citizenship? FYI, I work as a self-employed "Internet
consultant" which can be done from anywhere.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

-Matt

"M" <> wrote in message
news:...
    > My grandmother was born in Canada. She moved to the US and married a US
    > citizen. My mother was born while my grandmother was still a Canadian
    > citizen. From what I've been reading around here, my mother can apply for
    > Canadian (dual) citizenship. I was born after 1977 and I think I can
    > register and retain under section 8 to get citizenship once my mother
    > receives hers. Now, the requirements for the register/retain is to reside
in
    > Canada for one year prior to applying. Does anyone know if this one year
is
    > a full calendar year or do they care about vacations or visiting family
    > outside Canada and such? I'm curious how picky they plan on being about
that
    > one year.
    > Also, are there any things I need to think about with this arrangement? It
    > seems pretty straight forward after looking at the forms required and
such.
    > Thanks for the help!!
    > -Matt

Http://Www.Iamnotamerican.Com

in a recent article, M () said:

    > I just reread my own post and I guess I should clarify my question. In order
    > for me to retain my citizenship, I must reside in Canada for a year prior to
    > submitting the form. I'm currently a US citizen. I know I can visit Canada
    > for 6 months. Would I just need to leave for a day and come back? Or would I
    > be able to extend my stay due to my attempt to fulfill the requirements to
    > retain my Canadian citizenship? FYI, I work as a self-employed "Internet
    > consultant" which can be done from anywhere.

You can apply for an extension toward the end of your first 6-month
stay, though there is no guarantee (though it is likely) it will be
approved.

Stephen Gallagher

    > My grandmother was born in Canada. She moved to the US and married a US
    > citizen. My mother was born while my grandmother was still a Canadian
    > citizen. From what I've been reading around here, my mother can apply for
    > Canadian (dual) citizenship. I was born after 1977 and I think I can
    > register and retain under section 8 to get citizenship once my mother
    > receives hers. Now, the requirements for the register/retain is to reside in
    > Canada for one year prior to applying. Does anyone know if this one year is
    > a full calendar year or do they care about vacations or visiting family
    > outside Canada and such? I'm curious how picky they plan on being about that
    > one year.
    >

Can you provide some more information, such as.

What year was your grandmother born?
What year did she move to the US (approximately, if you don't exactly know).
What year was your mother born?
Did your grandmother ever become a US citizen, if so when?

That info will help.

Stephen

M

"Stephen Gallagher" <> wrote in message
news:...
    > > My grandmother was born in Canada. She moved to the US and married a US
    > > citizen. My mother was born while my grandmother was still a Canadian
    > > citizen. From what I've been reading around here, my mother can apply
for
    > > Canadian (dual) citizenship. I was born after 1977 and I think I can
    > > register and retain under section 8 to get citizenship once my mother
    > > receives hers. Now, the requirements for the register/retain is to
reside in
    > > Canada for one year prior to applying. Does anyone know if this one year
is
    > > a full calendar year or do they care about vacations or visiting family
    > > outside Canada and such? I'm curious how picky they plan on being about
that
    > > one year.
    > >
    > Can you provide some more information, such as.
    > What year was your grandmother born?
    > What year did she move to the US (approximately, if you don't exactly
know).
    > What year was your mother born?
    > Did your grandmother ever become a US citizen, if so when?
    > That info will help.
    > Stephen

I am 100% sure that my mother can get here dual citizenship as my aunt went
through the process and received hers and her situation is even more complex
than my mother's. (Aunt's father is different and his birth certificate is
from Poland/Russia with incorrect information on it, whereas my grandfather
was a US born citizen.)

Everything I'm reading says I can retain citizenship thru my mother once she
gets hers and once I reside in Canada for a year. From the sound of how long
these things take, I'm hoping to move up there in the next few months and
have my year going while my mother's forms are being mulled over. (My Aunt
says hers took about 8 months from sending it in to getting her citizenship
paperwork.)

I'm hoping to go up as a visitor, get an extension for after the first 6
months, then file the forms at that point (assuming my mother's has finished
processing by then-- which is should be.)

-Matt

Stephen Gallagher

    > I am 100% sure that my mother can get here dual citizenship as my aunt went
    > through the process and received hers and her situation is even more complex
    > than my mother's. (Aunt's father is different and his birth certificate is
    > from Poland/Russia with incorrect information on it, whereas my grandfather
    > was a US born citizen.)
    >
    > Everything I'm reading says I can retain citizenship thru my mother once she
    > gets hers and once I reside in Canada for a year. From the sound of how long
    > these things take, I'm hoping to move up there in the next few months and
    > have my year going while my mother's forms are being mulled over. (My Aunt
    > says hers took about 8 months from sending it in to getting her citizenship
    > paperwork.)

Section 8 allows persons who are born outside Canada, to a
Canadian parent who was also born outside Canada , but who received
Canadian citizenship from their Canadian parent, to apply to retain
(ie. keep)
Canadian citizenship, after residing in Canada for one year. Persons
who are 2nd generation Canadian by descent must apply to retain
their Canadian citizenship by age 28.

The use of the word retain, implies that the person (ie. like you,
the original
poster of this thread) would be a Canadian citizen at the time he
files the
application to retain it.

As you've stated, your mother is not currently a Canadian citizen
because at the time she was born, her Canadian mother (your maternal
grandmother) married to a non-Canadian man, did not have the right to
pass her Canadian citizenship to her foreign born children. Only
Canadian men,
and unmarried Canadian women had this right. Canada, has since,
established a way
for your mother to claim Canadian citizenship if she wishes.

What my question would be is, if your mother does claim Canadian
citizenship, is that citizenship retroactive back to her birth or is
it in effect only
from the date that her application is approved? I don't know the
answer to this. But the reason I'm asking is because if your mother's
Canadian citizenship is not retroactive, then she wouldn't have been
a Canadian at the time of your birth, therefore you wouldn't have
received
it from her, and you wouldn't be eligible to apply to retain it, since
you
don't have it to retain.

Now, if your mother's citizenship is retroactive, OR if Canada for
whatever
reason does consider her children born before the date she applies to
be Canadian, then you would still have to apply to retain it before
age 28 (you're 2nd generation born abroad), but you could come to
Canada as a Canadian citizen. Once your mother's citizenship was
approved, you would first apply for a Certificate of Canadian
citizenship,
and once you received it you could come to Canada, and you would
then apply to retain under section 8. This is all assuming that
Canada
will consider you to be eligible to receive citizenship from your
mother.
Otherwise, you may want to consider consulting with a lawyer
who knows the ins and outs of Canadian nationality law.

Stephen

M

I'm going to be consulting a lawyer on this before doing anything. From my
understanding, my mother is simply confirming her citizenship and getting
her documents describing such. Since she is not applying for citizenship, I
would assume she was a citizen from birth, and thereby was a citizen when I
was born. Likewise, your comment that I can enter Canada as a citizen (that
never occured to me :) even though I don't have any documents now, I should
be a citizen at this point and am just trying to retain it (assuming my
initial assumption is correct.)

I appreciate the advice-- This seems to be getting more complex as I think
about it. :) But at least I'll be able to talk to a lawyer with some
knowledge of the subject.

Thanks,

-Matt


"Stephen Gallagher" <> wrote in message
news:...
    > > I am 100% sure that my mother can get here dual citizenship as my aunt
went
    > > through the process and received hers and her situation is even more
complex
    > > than my mother's. (Aunt's father is different and his birth certificate
is
    > > from Poland/Russia with incorrect information on it, whereas my
grandfather
    > > was a US born citizen.)
    > >
    > > Everything I'm reading says I can retain citizenship thru my mother once
she
    > > gets hers and once I reside in Canada for a year. From the sound of how
long
    > > these things take, I'm hoping to move up there in the next few months
and
    > > have my year going while my mother's forms are being mulled over. (My
Aunt
    > > says hers took about 8 months from sending it in to getting her
citizenship
    > > paperwork.)
    > Section 8 allows persons who are born outside Canada, to a
    > Canadian parent who was also born outside Canada , but who received
    > Canadian citizenship from their Canadian parent, to apply to retain
    > (ie. keep)
    > Canadian citizenship, after residing in Canada for one year. Persons
    > who are 2nd generation Canadian by descent must apply to retain
    > their Canadian citizenship by age 28.
    > The use of the word retain, implies that the person (ie. like you,
    > the original
    > poster of this thread) would be a Canadian citizen at the time he
    > files the
    > application to retain it.
    > As you've stated, your mother is not currently a Canadian citizen
    > because at the time she was born, her Canadian mother (your maternal
    > grandmother) married to a non-Canadian man, did not have the right to
    > pass her Canadian citizenship to her foreign born children. Only
    > Canadian men,
    > and unmarried Canadian women had this right. Canada, has since,
    > established a way
    > for your mother to claim Canadian citizenship if she wishes.
    > What my question would be is, if your mother does claim Canadian
    > citizenship, is that citizenship retroactive back to her birth or is
    > it in effect only
    > from the date that her application is approved? I don't know the
    > answer to this. But the reason I'm asking is because if your mother's
    > Canadian citizenship is not retroactive, then she wouldn't have been
    > a Canadian at the time of your birth, therefore you wouldn't have
    > received
    > it from her, and you wouldn't be eligible to apply to retain it, since
    > you
    > don't have it to retain.
    > Now, if your mother's citizenship is retroactive, OR if Canada for
    > whatever
    > reason does consider her children born before the date she applies to
    > be Canadian, then you would still have to apply to retain it before
    > age 28 (you're 2nd generation born abroad), but you could come to
    > Canada as a Canadian citizen. Once your mother's citizenship was
    > approved, you would first apply for a Certificate of Canadian
    > citizenship,
    > and once you received it you could come to Canada, and you would
    > then apply to retain under section 8. This is all assuming that
    > Canada
    > will consider you to be eligible to receive citizenship from your
    > mother.
    > Otherwise, you may want to consider consulting with a lawyer
    > who knows the ins and outs of Canadian nationality law.
    > Stephen

Stephen Gallagher

    > I'm going to be consulting a lawyer on this before doing anything. From my
    > understanding, my mother is simply confirming her citizenship and getting
    > her documents describing such. Since she is not applying for citizenship, I
    > would assume she was a citizen from birth, and thereby was a citizen when I
    > was born.

That's hard to say. It appears that your mother would be applying
under paragraph 5(2)(b) of the Citizenship Act. That section deals
with the fact that under prior legislation, children born outside Canada
before February 15, 1977, in wedlock, to a Canadian mother and
non-Canadian father, were not able to claim Canadian citizenship.
Only if the father was Canadian (and the child was born in wedlock),
or if the mother was Canadian (and the child was born out of wedlock),
was the child able to claim Canadian citizenship. Section 5(2)(b) was
enacted as a way to correct that sexist position.

But the Citizenship Act defines section 5(2)(b) as a "grant" of citizenship,
not an acknowledgement that your mother is already a citizen. Previous
postings in this group also indicate that your mother will not be a citizen until
her application is approved AND that any children she had BEFORE
that date, are not entitled to Canadian citizenship on the basis of
having a Canadian mother, because she wasn't Canadian when
they were born.

If that is the case, then I don't think you can apply to retain it,
since you wouldn't have it to begin with. Any children born to
your mother AFTER she is considered to be Canadian would
be Canadian citizens, although that doesn't help you very much.

I hope I'm wrong, and please post here and let us know if your
findings are different. I know that the way that legislation is
worded and how it is actually implemented can be slightly
different. For example, the Citizenship Act says that anyone
who receives Canadian citizenship under section 5 must
take the oath of citizenship. Yet, the guide for citizenship
under section 5(2)(b) makes no mention of this. You can
download the guide from the CIC webpage at:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/applications/cit52b.html
In particular, the guide says that if an application is approved,
the applicant will receive a Certificate of Citizenship. There's
no mention of the oath, despite the fact that it is stated in the
legislation.

Let us know.

Stephen Gallagher

M

"Stephen Gallagher" <> wrote in message
news:...
    > > I'm going to be consulting a lawyer on this before doing anything. From
my
    > > understanding, my mother is simply confirming her citizenship and
getting
    > > her documents describing such. Since she is not applying for
citizenship, I
    > > would assume she was a citizen from birth, and thereby was a citizen
when I
    > > was born.
    > That's hard to say. It appears that your mother would be applying
    > under paragraph 5(2)(b) of the Citizenship Act. That section deals
    > with the fact that under prior legislation, children born outside Canada
    > before February 15, 1977, in wedlock, to a Canadian mother and
    > non-Canadian father, were not able to claim Canadian citizenship.
    > Only if the father was Canadian (and the child was born in wedlock),
    > or if the mother was Canadian (and the child was born out of wedlock),
    > was the child able to claim Canadian citizenship. Section 5(2)(b) was
    > enacted as a way to correct that sexist position.
    > But the Citizenship Act defines section 5(2)(b) as a "grant" of
citizenship,
    > not an acknowledgement that your mother is already a citizen. Previous
    > postings in this group also indicate that your mother will not be a
citizen until
    > her application is approved AND that any children she had BEFORE
    > that date, are not entitled to Canadian citizenship on the basis of
    > having a Canadian mother, because she wasn't Canadian when
    > they were born.
    > If that is the case, then I don't think you can apply to retain it,
    > since you wouldn't have it to begin with. Any children born to
    > your mother AFTER she is considered to be Canadian would
    > be Canadian citizens, although that doesn't help you very much.
    > I hope I'm wrong, and please post here and let us know if your
    > findings are different. I know that the way that legislation is
    > worded and how it is actually implemented can be slightly
    > different. For example, the Citizenship Act says that anyone
    > who receives Canadian citizenship under section 5 must
    > take the oath of citizenship. Yet, the guide for citizenship
    > under section 5(2)(b) makes no mention of this. You can
    > download the guide from the CIC webpage at:
    > http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/applications/cit52b.html
    > In particular, the guide says that if an application is approved,
    > the applicant will receive a Certificate of Citizenship. There's
    > no mention of the oath, despite the fact that it is stated in the
    > legislation.
    > Let us know.
    > Stephen Gallagher

Thanks for the input. I was looking at the form for myself (
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kit...n/CIT0300E.pdf ) and I've
noticed this also on page 3:

--------------
Who can apply to retain their Canadian citizenship?
To qualify to retain your Canadian citizenship you must:
. be born outside Canada;
. be born after February 14, 1977;
. at the time of your birth, have had one parent, other than a parent who
adopted you, who was a
-- Canadian citizen because he/she was born outside Canada between January
1, 1947 and February 14, 1977, and was eligible to be registered as a
Canadian citizen at birth, but did not register as a Canadian citizen until
after February 14, 1977;
or
-- because your parent was a Canadian citizen at birth and was born outside
Canada after February 14, 1977;
. be under 28 years of age;
. reside in Canada for a period of at least one year immediately preceding
the date of your application or establish a substantial connection with
Canada.
--------------

From the third bullet point, it says that that my parent was eligible to be
registered as a Canadian citizen at birth, but did not register until after
1977. I'm hoping this point will work in my favor

Anyway, thanks again for the input. I think I've got enough info to hunt
down a lawyer and run this all by him. Crossing my fingers..

-Matt

Stephen Gallagher

(snipped for brevity)

    > Thanks for the input. I was looking at the form for myself (
    > http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kit...n/CIT0300E.pdf ) and I've
    > noticed this also on page 3:
    >
    > --------------
    > Who can apply to retain their Canadian citizenship?
    > To qualify to retain your Canadian citizenship you must:
    > . be born outside Canada;
    > . be born after February 14, 1977;
    > . at the time of your birth, have had one parent, other than a parent who
    > adopted you, who was a
    > -- Canadian citizen because he/she was born outside Canada between January
    > 1, 1947 and February 14, 1977, and was eligible to be registered as a
    > Canadian citizen at birth, but did not register as a Canadian citizen until
    > after February 14, 1977;
    > or
    > -- because your parent was a Canadian citizen at birth and was born outside
    > Canada after February 14, 1977;
    > . be under 28 years of age;
    > . reside in Canada for a period of at least one year immediately preceding
    > the date of your application or establish a substantial connection with
    > Canada.
    > --------------
    >
    > From the third bullet point, it says that that my parent was eligible to be
    > registered as a Canadian citizen at birth, but did not register until after
    > 1977. I'm hoping this point will work in my favor

Keep in mind that your mother was "not" eligible to be registered
as a Canadian citizen "at birth." She received the ability to register
only after the new citizenship laws came into effect. As a review,
when your mother was born, the children (born in wedlock), to Canadian
men, or the children (born out of wedlock) to Canadian women, held
the right to be registered at birth. But, in your mother's
case, she was the foreign born child, born in wedlock, to a Canadian
woman, and a non-Canadian man. At the time she was born children in this
category did have a right to be registered "at birth". If your grandmother had
tried to register your mother with the Canadian government, it would have been
rejected on the basis that she was not eligible.

Good luck.

Stephen Gallagher