Caro

Originally posted by katnap8

    > Hi,


    > Sorry for being nosey, but are you the couple that was moving to W.
    > Virginia for your job transfer a while back. What made you decide to
    > move, have you ever lived in Germany or abroad. My husband and I want
    > to move to England in the future for a similar time frame as you but
    > were also wondering about what needs to be done if he has the GC. We
    > already had our AOS and were approved pending his fingerprints and
    > security check.


    > Anyway...best wishes


    > Kat and Chris



Every once in a while, we are also thinking about moving back to Europe.
It is very vague because of a lot of unknowns. But, we figured we would
wait until I have US citizenship, which is 3-4 years away, and then
reconsider the problem. This at least, put some kind of a "deadline" to
review the situation and see if it makes sense for us to move. Then we
won't have to deal with the immigration and can come back on a moment's
notice if needed.



Caroline

Dcmark

Originally posted by Caro

    > Every once in a while, we are also thinking about moving back to
    > Europe. It is very vague because of a lot of unknowns. But, we figured
    > we would wait until I have US citizenship, which is 3-4 years away,
    > and then reconsider the problem. This at least, put some kind of a
    > "deadline" to review the situation and see if it makes sense for us to
    > move. Then we won't have to deal with the immigration and can come
    > back on a moment's notice if needed.


    > Caroline



This is going to happen to me in 2 years when I move to France. My wife
will be giving up the GC I guess. At the right time we will consult a
lawyer, as the visiting question is a good one. When does the GC expire
and the VWP kick in?



Of course, from BCIS's standpoint, they expect you to turn in the GC
when you leave I guess.

Kariml

Originally posted by DCMark

    > This is going to happen to me in 2 years when I move to France. My
    > wife will be giving up the GC I guess. At the right time we will
    > consult a lawyer, as the visiting question is a good one. When does
    > the GC expire and the VWP kick in?


    > Of course, from BCIS's standpoint, they expect you to turn in the GC
    > when you leave I guess.



Wouldn't the green card expire when it is considered abandoned? So if
it is good for 2 years, does that mean if we visit within the first 2
years that he will enter on the green card and then anytime after that
he will visit VWP? But he wouldn't actually be a US resident at that
point so I would not want to do anything against immigration laws.
Confusing......

Jeffreyhy

kariml,



Don't confuse the physical green card with the Permanent Resident status
that it is evidence of. In the case of the initial 2 year conditional
period, yes the status ends at the same time the card expires, unless
application has been made to remove conditions. But...



Without conditions the card can expire but the status continues. Or,
the status - before or after removing conditions - can be lost before
the expiration date of the card.



I shouldn't try to explain further, and I can't anyway, but this may be
some of the complexity that Folinskyinla referred to.



Regards, JEff



Originally posted by kariml

Wouldn't the green card expire when it is considered abandoned? So if
it is good for 2 years, does that mean if we visit within the first 2
years that he will enter on the green card and then anytime after that
he will visit VWP? But he wouldn't actually be a US resident at that
point so I would not want to do anything against immigration laws.
Confusing......

Kariml

Originally posted by jeffreyhy

    > kariml,


    > Don't confuse the physical green card with the Permanent
    > Resident status that it is evidence of. In the case of the
    > initial 2 year conditional period, yes the status ends at the
    > same time the card expires, unless application has been made to
    > remove conditions. But...


    > Without conditions the card can expire but the status continues. Or,
    > the status - before or after removing conditions - can be lost before
    > the expiration date of the card.


    > I shouldn't try to explain further, and I can't anyway, but this may
    > be some of the complexity that Folinskyinla referred to.


    > Regards, JEff



I tend to use the words green card and permanent residency
interchangeably, thanks for pointing that out - something I need to get
out of the habit of doing.



Looks like it will be complicated no matter what - so many "what ifs?"

Dcmark

Originally posted by kariml

    > I tend to use the words green card and permanent residency
    > interchangeably, thanks for pointing that out - something I need to
    > get out of the habit of doing.


    > Looks like it will be complicated no matter what - so many "what ifs?"
    >



It may be complicated but its simple too. If you (or I) move to Europe
to make our permanent life there, then our spouse (assuming they are
with us) is no longer a permanent resident of the US. There may be
some legal wrangling to hold onto the GC but in the spirit of the
entire concept of PR, it has been adandoned. You cannot live in two
places at once.



[I know this is a simplification, and you can have two homes of course.]

Folinskyinla

Originally posted by DCMark

    > It may be complicated but its simple too. If you (or I) move to
    > Europe to make our permanent life there, then our spouse (assuming
    > they are with us) is no longer a permanent resident of the US. There
    > may be some legal wrangling to hold onto the GC but in the spirit of
    > the entire concept of PR, it has been adandoned. You cannot live in
    > two places at once.


    > [I know this is a simplification, and you can have two homes of
    > course.]



Hi:



I have an abandonment case going right now -- client's grandparents were
naturalized US citizens living in the US. Starting as small child,
client came to the US repeatedly every summer to spend 2 months with
grandparents. Usually on a tourist visa. When she turned 18, got an
F-1 student, did her OPT and then H-1b.



On last entry, she was sent to secondary and POE inspectors did a very
detailed Q&A in order to extract a confession that her TRUE intention
was, and always was, to live in the US as long as she possibly could.



They cancel the H-1b, get ready to do expedited removal without hearing
-- and then they go to finish up everthing by making the appropriate
computer entries -- and up pops -- the green card she obtained when she
was 4 years old!



I think I stand a good chance of winning this one. She had no intention
of abandoning her green card -- she never knew she had it in the first
place! And the law is well established that the acutally documentation
doesn't count -- its action and intent that determine the issue. And
burden of proof to show abandonment is on the Feds.

Andy Platt

"Folinskyinla" <member4043@british_expats.com> wrote:

    > They cancel the H-1b, get ready to do expedited removal without hearing
    > -- and then they go to finish up everthing by making the appropriate
    > computer entries -- and up pops -- the green card she obtained when she
    > was 4 years old!
    > I think I stand a good chance of winning this one. She had no intention
    > of abandoning her green card -- she never knew she had it in the first
    > place! And the law is well established that the acutally documentation
    > doesn't count -- its action and intent that determine the issue. And
    > burden of proof to show abandonment is on the Feds.

Interesting; couldn't the use of a non-immigrant visa be considered de-facto
abandonment?

Andy.

Meauxna

Originally posted by Folinskyinla

    > client came to the US repeatedly every summer to spend 2 months with
    > grandparents. Usually on a tourist visa. When she turned 18, got an
    > F-1 student, did her OPT and then H-1b.


    > -snip-


    > They cancel the H-1b, get ready to do expedited removal without
    > hearing -- and then they go to finish up everthing by making the
    > appropriate computer entries -- and up pops -- the green card she
    > obtained when she was 4 years old!


    >



I'm curious. How did the LPR status NOT turn up during B1/B2, F-1 and
H-1B issuance? OK, she didn't put it in her app because she didn't know
she had it. Shouldn't it have turned up during "processing"?

Andy Platt

"DCMark" <member6276@british_expats.com> wrote:

    > It may be complicated but its simple too. If you (or I) move to Europe
    > to make our permanent life there, then our spouse (assuming they are
    > with us) is no longer a permanent resident of the US. There may be
    > some legal wrangling to hold onto the GC but in the spirit of the
    > entire concept of PR, it has been adandoned. You cannot live in two
    > places at once.

Of course, just to complicate matters , under some circumstances, if the
US citizen spouse is going to move abroad, their PR spouse becomes eligible
for expedited naturalization ahead of the usual three years.

Andy.