Tonibwater

I'm writing on behalf of my Dutch partner who will be coming to
Australia with me in December 2004 eventually for permanent residence if
things go well.

I've heard that if you apply for the residence visa while in Oz (as
will be her case) you need to make sure that you have the appropriate
entrance visa to Oz. For example, the holiday makers' standard ETA
(electronic visa) is a simple way of getting into Oz, but if you
apply for a peramanent residence visa while in Oz on this simple
entry visa, you may not get your residence visa. There may also be
issues about the entrance card that you typically fill out in the
airplance before arrival. For example, if you say that you are
entering Oz for a holiday, it would seem a bit strange to apply for a
residence visa 3 months later becasue of a relationship with an
Australian. Get the drift?

Can anyone confirm this and give me advice about the best way for my
partner to get into Oz in the first instance.

Perhaps something like this could grow into a "flowchart" for people to
consider when confronted with several options in their passage down the
visa application tunnel.

Craig Brooke

    > I'm writing on behalf of my Dutch partner who will be coming to
    > Australia with me in December 2004 eventually for permanent residence
    > if things go well.
    > I've heard that if you apply for the residence visa while in Oz (as
    > will be her case) you need to make sure that you have the appropriate
    > entrance visa to Oz. For example, the holiday makers' standard ETA
    > (electronic visa) is a simple way of getting into Oz, but if you
    > apply for a peramanent residence visa while in Oz on this simple
    > entry visa, you may not get your residence visa. There may also be
    > issues about the entrance card that you typically fill out in the
    > airplance before arrival. For example, if you say that you are
    > entering Oz for a holiday, it would seem a bit strange to apply for a
    > residence visa 3 months later becasue of a relationship with an
    > Australian. Get the drift?
    > Can anyone confirm this and give me advice about the best way for my
    > partner to get into Oz in the first instance.
    > Perhaps something like this could grow into a "flowchart" for people
    > to consider when confronted with several options in their passage down
    > the visa application tunnel.

Whoa!, don't even think about bending the system!!

JayDeee

    > I'm writing on behalf of my Dutch partner who will be coming to
    > Australia with me in December 2004 eventually for permanent residence
    > if things go well.
    > I've heard that if you apply for the residence visa while in Oz (as
    > will be her case) you need to make sure that you have the appropriate
    > entrance visa to Oz. For example, the holiday makers' standard ETA
    > (electronic visa) is a simple way of getting into Oz, but if you
    > apply for a peramanent residence visa while in Oz on this simple
    > entry visa, you may not get your residence visa. There may also be
    > issues about the entrance card that you typically fill out in the
    > airplance before arrival. For example, if you say that you are
    > entering Oz for a holiday, it would seem a bit strange to apply for a
    > residence visa 3 months later becasue of a relationship with an
    > Australian. Get the drift?
    > Can anyone confirm this and give me advice about the best way for my
    > partner to get into Oz in the first instance.
    > Perhaps something like this could grow into a "flowchart" for people
    > to consider when confronted with several options in their passage down
    > the visa application tunnel.

Have you been together long enough to apply for a visa now? If you apply
before you enter Australia and get your visa granted before you go then
you are not goin to be breaking any rules when you enter the country.

Pollyana

    > I'm writing on behalf of my Dutch partner who will be coming to
    > Australia with me in December 2004 eventually for permanent residence
    > if things go well.
    > I've heard that if you apply for the residence visa while in Oz (as
    > will be her case) you need to make sure that you have the appropriate
    > entrance visa to Oz. For example, the holiday makers' standard ETA
    > (electronic visa) is a simple way of getting into Oz, but if you
    > apply for a peramanent residence visa while in Oz on this simple
    > entry visa, you may not get your residence visa. There may also be
    > issues about the entrance card that you typically fill out in the
    > airplance before arrival. For example, if you say that you are
    > entering Oz for a holiday, it would seem a bit strange to apply for a
    > residence visa 3 months later becasue of a relationship with an
    > Australian. Get the drift?
    > Can anyone confirm this and give me advice about the best way for my
    > partner to get into Oz in the first instance.
    > Perhaps something like this could grow into a "flowchart" for people
    > to consider when confronted with several options in their passage down
    > the visa application tunnel.

If you enter Oz on an ETA or long-term tourist visa, be careful - if you
fill in the landing card with anything other than a holiday/visiting
friends, they will quite probably refuse you entry! Think about it, you
enter on an ETA, designed for tourists, and then you tick the box for "I
am permanently migrating....." At Immigration they read the cards, they
don't just file them, and they read them BEFORE they let you in. If they
think you are entering with the intention of staying permanently you
will be on the next flight out.

Fraze1987

    > If you enter Oz on an ETA or long-term tourist visa, be careful - if
    > you fill in the landing card with anything other than a
    > holiday/visiting friends, they will quite probably refuse you entry!
    > Think about it, you enter on an ETA, designed for tourists, and then
    > you tick the box for "I am permanently migrating....." At Immigration
    > they read the cards, they don't just file them, and they read them
    > BEFORE they let you in. If they think you are entering with the
    > intention of staying permanently you will be on the next flight out.

Mmmm - would that be the case even if you had a 136 app in progress?
(we're planning on travelling on an ETA then getting 136 evidenced in NZ
once we get pre-grant)

Pollyana

    > Mmmm - would that be the case even if you had a 136 app in progress?
    > (we're planning on travelling on an ETA then getting 136 evidenced in
    > NZ once we get pre-grant)

I think (though check it cos I'm no expert at all on skills stuff!) that
in your case you need to tell DIMIA that you are going to Oz - I suggest
you ask them how to fill in the landing card. I would guess there will
be a note on the computer at Immigration when you enter, but certainly
check it with them. They need to know that you will be in Oz, so they
can arrange for the evidencing in NZ.
What I was refering to earlier is the fact of entering on an ETA,
intending to apply for a spouse visa onshore (technically illegal to
enter that way) and stating on the form that you intend to stay
permanently.
This will ring big bells with Immigration as no-one on a 3 months
tourist visa should be ticking "I intend to stay permanently"!

Jaj

    > I think (though check it cos I'm no expert at all on skills stuff!)
    > that in your case you need to tell DIMIA that you are going to Oz - I
    > suggest you ask them how to fill in the landing card. I would guess
    > there will be a note on the computer at Immigration when you enter,
    > but certainly check it with them. They need to know that you will be
    > in Oz, so they can arrange for the evidencing in NZ.
    > What I was refering to earlier is the fact of entering on an ETA,
    > intending to apply for a spouse visa onshore (technically illegal to
    > enter that way) and stating on the form that you intend to stay
    > permanently.
    > This will ring big bells with Immigration as no-one on a 3 months
    > tourist visa should be ticking "I intend to stay permanently"!

It's not usually a problem to come on an ETA if you have a 136 or other
offshore application in the system, as they'll expect you to go
offshore for visa grant - not lodge an onshore application which they
often frown upon.

There are a range of other complications and risks in lodging an onshore
application - many spouses of Australians learn about these the hard way
each year.



The onshore application facilities are there for those *already* in
Australia on some other status (eg student, working visa, retirement
visa etc) who want to change status to a spouse visa.

Those resident offshore are expected to apply offshore for the proper
visa before travelling to Australia to settle - usually at the DIMIA
office responsible for their country of residence. In the case of a
resident of the Netherlands, the appropriate location is normally the
Australian Embassy in Berlin, http://www.australian-embassy.de

The appropriate visa may be a spouse visa (including one on de-facto
grounds) or a fiance visa.

Jeremy

Charlotteg

    > It's not usually a problem to come on an ETA if you have a 136 or
    > other offshore application in the system, as they'll expect you to go
    > offshore for visa grant - not lodge an onshore application which they
    > often frown upon.
    > There are a range of other complications and risks in lodging an
    > onshore application - many spouses of Australians learn about these
    > the hard way each year.
    > The onshore application facilities are there for those *already* in
    > Australia on some other status (eg student, working visa, retirement
    > visa etc) who want to change status to a spouse visa.
    > Those resident offshore are expected to apply offshore for the proper
    > visa before travelling to Australia to settle - usually at the DIMIA
    > office responsible for their country of residence. In the case of a
    > resident of the Netherlands, the appropriate location is normally the
    > Australian Embassy in Berlin, http://www.australian-embassy.de
    > The appropriate visa may be a spouse visa (including one on de-facto
    > grounds) or a fiance visa.
    > Jeremy

If this is any help to you, I applied for subclass 136 a few years ago
and due to the points change realised that I would be placed in the
pool. I then applied for a Working Holiday Maker visa whilst the
application was still being processed and they were fine with it. They
say that the most recent visa granted becomes the valid one.

Charlotte

Tonibwater

    > I'm writing on behalf of my Dutch partner who will be coming to
    > Australia with me in December 2004 eventually for permanent residence
    > if things go well.
    > I've heard that if you apply for the residence visa while in Oz (as
    > will be her case) you need to make sure that you have the appropriate
    > entrance visa to Oz. For example, the holiday makers' standard ETA
    > (electronic visa) is a simple way of getting into Oz, but if you
    > apply for a peramanent residence visa while in Oz on this simple
    > entry visa, you may not get your residence visa. There may also be
    > issues about the entrance card that you typically fill out in the
    > airplance before arrival. For example, if you say that you are
    > entering Oz for a holiday, it would seem a bit strange to apply for a
    > residence visa 3 months later becasue of a relationship with an
    > Australian. Get the drift?
    > Can anyone confirm this and give me advice about the best way for my
    > partner to get into Oz in the first instance.
    > Perhaps something like this could grow into a "flowchart" for people
    > to consider when confronted with several options in their passage down
    > the visa application tunnel.

Thanks for the many replies. More confusion ... therefore some
clarification and more questions.

Our strategy is that, because ...

1. the application fee for a spouse based residence visa is
$2,000+, and
2. applying for the visa offshore would mean a further wait of perhaps
a year
and we don't want to wait another year

This is not an atempt to "bend" the system. It's an attempt to "use"
the system to suit our requirements. "Understanding" the system is the
point of my questions.

We will have been together for 12 months come February 2005, but have
known each other since March 2003.

I understand the comments about completing the landing card ... that's
why I'm asking the questions. You are telling me what she shouldn't do
.. these are things we already have concern about. My question is
"what should she do?". I'm asking, is there a different visa (other
than the simple ETA) that she can use to enter Oz to overcome these
alarm bells at the time of entry and at the later time of application
for the residence visa.

A "136 app" in progress"! Can you explain this please if it is
pertinent to our situation.

Check with DIMIA! Would this forum exist if it was as easy as that?
I've been pursuing this for many months and get no response or different
responses every time I ask ... even with direct phone enquiries with
DIMIA in Australia and the embassy in Berlin. I'm looking for the
wisdom of experience through this forum ... the way to do it, rather
than all the rules.

Cheers ... Tony

Saraliz

    > Thanks for the many replies. More confusion ... therefore some
    > clarification and more questions.
    > Our strategy is that, because ...
    > 1. the application fee for a spouse based residence visa is
    > $2,000+, and
    > 2. applying for the visa offshore would mean a further wait of
    > perhaps a year
    > and we don't want to wait another year
    > This is not an atempt to "bend" the system. It's an attempt to "use"
    > the system to suit our requirements. "Understanding" the system is
    > the point of my questions.
    > We will have been together for 12 months come February 2005, but have
    > known each other since March 2003.
    > I understand the comments about completing the landing card ... that's
    > why I'm asking the questions. You are telling me what she shouldn't
    > do ... these are things we already have concern about. My question is
    > "what should she do?". I'm asking, is there a different visa (other
    > than the simple ETA) that she can use to enter Oz to overcome these
    > alarm bells at the time of entry and at the later time of application
    > for the residence visa.
    > A "136 app" in progress"! Can you explain this please if it is
    > pertinent to our situation.
    > Check with DIMIA! Would this forum exist if it was as easy as that?
    > I've been pursuing this for many months and get no response or
    > different responses every time I ask ... even with direct phone
    > enquiries with DIMIA in Australia and the embassy in Berlin. I'm
    > looking for the wisdom of experience through this forum ... the way to
    > do it, rather than all the rules.
    > Cheers ... Tony

- Not relevent in your situation.

You say you are not willing to spend another year apart -
understandable, but are you really sure it would take that long?
Applications to London are generally processed in a few weeks. I can't
imagine that where you would apply (I think Dutch spouse visas go to
Berlin) would be that much longer. There are a few people on this forum
who have applied through Berlin - you could try doing a search to see
how long their applications took.

As others have told you, it is illegal to enter Australia on a tourist
visa with the intention of staying permanently. It is, however,
perfectly acceptable to visit Australia, fall in love with the country &
then change your mind and decide to stay - and thus apply within
Australia.