Sean

Hi seasoned travellers. Your valuable feedback and tips on our
forthcoming travel to Europe in May would be much appreciated.

Our itinerary is from Singapore, fly to Paris and stay 1 night in
Paris, then travel to Malaga, stay 5 nights. How long is the rail
journey all the way from Paris to Malaga in Spain? Would it be better
for us to make a stopover at Madrid and stay one night there? If we do
that, how long is the rail journey from Madrid to Malaga?

After Malaga, we plan to travel to Barcelona, stay 3 nights, then
travel to Geneve stay 3 nights, then travel to Paris stay 2 nights and
after that travel to Kent in UK, stay 3 nights, then back to Paris for
flight home. We draw up this itinerary with the specific objective of
minimizing the travelling distance from one destination to another.
Can we improve on it?

What would be the most economical mode of transport for our itinerary?
Is getting the Eurorail pass a good option? Is there a better
alternative? BTW, we are in the 58 – 63 age group? Are we
eligible for any senior citizen concession? Do we need to buy the
eurorail pass in advance?

As this is our first trip to Europe and haven’t the faintest
idea how to get from one place to another, we hope you’ll
understand and don’t get turned off by the many questions we are
asking.

Doug Burke

Sounds to me like a whole lot of traveling but be that as it may I'd
recommend bagging the 2 night stay in Paris and adding that on the end
of your trip right before you fly home.
Doug

sean wrote:
    > Hi seasoned travellers. Your valuable feedback and tips on our
    > forthcoming travel to Europe in May would be much appreciated.
    >
    > Our itinerary is from Singapore, fly to Paris and stay 1 night in
    > Paris, then travel to Malaga, stay 5 nights. How long is the rail
    > journey all the way from Paris to Malaga in Spain? Would it be better
    > for us to make a stopover at Madrid and stay one night there? If we do
    > that, how long is the rail journey from Madrid to Malaga?
    >
    > After Malaga, we plan to travel to Barcelona, stay 3 nights, then
    > travel to Geneve stay 3 nights, then travel to Paris stay 2 nights and
    > after that travel to Kent in UK, stay 3 nights, then back to Paris for
    > flight home. We draw up this itinerary with the specific objective of
    > minimizing the travelling distance from one destination to another.
    > Can we improve on it?
    >
    > What would be the most economical mode of transport for our itinerary?
    > Is getting the Eurorail pass a good option? Is there a better
    > alternative? BTW, we are in the 58 – 63 age group? Are we
    > eligible for any senior citizen concession? Do we need to buy the
    > eurorail pass in advance?
    >
    > As this is our first trip to Europe and haven’t the faintest
    > idea how to get from one place to another, we hope you’ll
    > understand and don’t get turned off by the many questions we are
    > asking.

Jenn

In article <>,
(sean) wrote:

    > Hi seasoned travellers. Your valuable feedback and tips on our
    > forthcoming travel to Europe in May would be much appreciated.
    >
    > Our itinerary is from Singapore, fly to Paris and stay 1 night in
    > Paris, then travel to Malaga, stay 5 nights. How long is the rail
    > journey all the way from Paris to Malaga in Spain? Would it be better
    > for us to make a stopover at Madrid and stay one night there? If we do
    > that, how long is the rail journey from Madrid to Malaga?
    >
    > After Malaga, we plan to travel to Barcelona, stay 3 nights, then
    > travel to Geneve stay 3 nights, then travel to Paris stay 2 nights and
    > after that travel to Kent in UK, stay 3 nights, then back to Paris for
    > flight home. We draw up this itinerary with the specific objective of
    > minimizing the travelling distance from one destination to another.
    > Can we improve on it?

I think you would be far better off with a more compact trip rather than
having such very little time in such far distant spots as Kent and Malaga

That said -- less is more -- 2 nights gives you one real day, 3 nights
gives you two real days -- and those long trips eat up your time in
logistics of getting in and out of hotels, to trains and traveling and
then finding hotels etc etc -- and it is exhausting. 5 nights in Paris
will give you far more to see do and enjoy than two days in Switzerland,
two days in England and a fragmented hops in and out of Paris.

You are going through Paris 3 times. At the very least spend your last
4 nights there rather than dividing your time -- that gives you no shot
at enjoying Paris -- and having done this myself, you will rue the day
you build a trip that involved international trips on consecutive days
e.g. Kent to Paris to Singapore. It makes the entire end of your trip
about logistics.

If you must go to Spain for some personal reason -- then fly into Madrid
and out of Paris -- if that is impossible then do the spain segment and
go from there to England [assuming you have some personal reason to
need to go to Kent] and then Finish in Paris. Drop Geneva at least.

The only excuse for this stretched out trip with so much wasted travel
time is that you have relatives or some other personal reason for
visiting such far flung spots.

If I were you and MUST fly into Paris and MUST go to Spain -- I would
just do the Spanish leg of this and Paris -- and cut out Geneva and
England.


    >
    > What would be the most economical mode of transport for our itinerary?
    > Is getting the Eurorail pass a good option? Is there a better
    > alternative? BTW, we are in the 58 – 63 age group? Are we
    > eligible for any senior citizen concession? Do we need to buy the
    > eurorail pass in advance?
    >
    > As this is our first trip to Europe and haven’t the faintest
    > idea how to get from one place to another, we hope you’ll
    > understand and don’t get turned off by the many questions we are
    > asking.

Jenn

In article <jenn->,
Jenn <> wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > (sean) wrote:
    >
    > > Hi seasoned travellers. Your valuable feedback and tips on our
    > > forthcoming travel to Europe in May would be much appreciated.
    > >
    > > Our itinerary is from Singapore, fly to Paris and stay 1 night in
    > > Paris, then travel to Malaga, stay 5 nights. How long is the rail
    > > journey all the way from Paris to Malaga in Spain? Would it be better
    > > for us to make a stopover at Madrid and stay one night there? If we do
    > > that, how long is the rail journey from Madrid to Malaga?
    > >
    > > After Malaga, we plan to travel to Barcelona, stay 3 nights, then
    > > travel to Geneve stay 3 nights, then travel to Paris stay 2 nights and
    > > after that travel to Kent in UK, stay 3 nights, then back to Paris for
    > > flight home. We draw up this itinerary with the specific objective of
    > > minimizing the travelling distance from one destination to another.
    > > Can we improve on it?
    >
    > I think you would be far better off with a more compact trip rather than
    > having such very little time in such far distant spots as Kent and Malaga
    >
    > That said -- less is more -- 2 nights gives you one real day, 3 nights
    > gives you two real days -- and those long trips eat up your time in
    > logistics of getting in and out of hotels, to trains and traveling and
    > then finding hotels etc etc -- and it is exhausting. 5 nights in Paris
    > will give you far more to see do and enjoy than two days in Switzerland,
    > two days in England and a fragmented hops in and out of Paris.
    >
    > You are going through Paris 3 times. At the very least spend your last
    > 4 nights there rather than dividing your time -- that gives you no shot
    > at enjoying Paris -- and having done this myself, you will rue the day
    > you build a trip that involved international trips on consecutive days
    > e.g. Kent to Paris to Singapore. It makes the entire end of your trip
    > about logistics.
    >
    > If you must go to Spain for some personal reason -- then fly into Madrid
    > and out of Paris -- if that is impossible then do the spain segment and
    > go from there to England [assuming you have some personal reason to
    > need to go to Kent] and then Finish in Paris. Drop Geneva at least.
    >
    > The only excuse for this stretched out trip with so much wasted travel
    > time is that you have relatives or some other personal reason for
    > visiting such far flung spots.
    >
    > If I were you and MUST fly into Paris and MUST go to Spain -- I would
    > just do the Spanish leg of this and Paris -- and cut out Geneva and
    > England.
    >

I would also explore air fare -- it is often ridiculously cheap to fly
among European cities -- you need to travel very light for economical
airlines -- but I would think you might find it cheaper to fly from
Spain to England for example, and certainly from England to Paris than
to use the train. And that saves time on those long stretches. We did
a 5 night sidetrip to Barcelona from Rome one time at very little cost.
And Florence to Paris by plane would have been much cheaper than the
night train we took because we had 80 pounds of books we had to haul.

I would be surprised if you would save anything using a rail pass

Lourens Smak

In article <>,
(sean) wrote:

    > Hi seasoned travellers. Your valuable feedback and tips on our
    > forthcoming travel to Europe in May would be much appreciated.
    >
    > Our itinerary is from Singapore, fly to Paris and stay 1 night in
    > Paris, then travel to Malaga, stay 5 nights. How long is the rail
    > journey all the way from Paris to Malaga in Spain? Would it be better
    > for us to make a stopover at Madrid and stay one night there?

Don't know how long this is exactly but you'd be wise to take the
night-train and sleep during (part of) the trip. But:
Malaga is a BIG tourist-airport, (the nearby costa's...), and many cheap
flights go there; it could very well be cheaper than the nighttrain.
(it's a 2 or 2,5 hour flight or so I think)

    > After Malaga, we plan to travel to Barcelona, stay 3 nights, then
    > travel to Geneve stay 3 nights, then travel to Paris stay 2 nights and
    > after that travel to Kent in UK, stay 3 nights, then back to Paris for
    > flight home. We draw up this itinerary with the specific objective of
    > minimizing the travelling distance from one destination to another.
    > Can we improve on it?

well, you're in Paris 3 times during the trip... You'll be hauling
suitcases through the metro tunnels a LOT. It all sounds not ideal to
me. If you arrive late from Singapore, stay in Paris, but stay 2 nights,
and relax for a day. Finish with a couple of days in Paris again.

    > As this is our first trip to Europe and haven’t the faintest
    > idea how to get from one place to another

It's easy and probably not that different from how you do it at home...
;-)

I suppose you want to visit specific things, places, or friends/family,
otherwise I would put together a trip with a bit less travelling...
spending your entire vacation on a train isn't a great idea. Wanting to
see too much is a very common mistake. You'll also end up just seeing
city centers, because you don't have time for anything else.

So, maybe fly from Paris to malaga, and forget Kent, go from Geneva to
the Alps or so, or somewhere between Geneva and Paris... or go to Nice
for example and take the TGV high-speed (>180mph) train back to Paris, a
very cool way to travel, like a plane but with leg-room...
;-)
Lourens

Sean

Jenn <> wrote in message news:<jenn->...
    > In article <jenn->,
    > Jenn <> wrote:
    >
    > > In article <>,
    > > (sean) wrote:
    > >
    > > > Hi seasoned travellers. Your valuable feedback and tips on our
    > > > forthcoming travel to Europe in May would be much appreciated.
    > > >
    > > > Our itinerary is from Singapore, fly to Paris and stay 1 night in
    > > > Paris, then travel to Malaga, stay 5 nights. How long is the rail
    > > > journey all the way from Paris to Malaga in Spain? Would it be better
    > > > for us to make a stopover at Madrid and stay one night there? If we do
    > > > that, how long is the rail journey from Madrid to Malaga?
    > > >
    > > > After Malaga, we plan to travel to Barcelona, stay 3 nights, then
    > > > travel to Geneve stay 3 nights, then travel to Paris stay 2 nights and
    > > > after that travel to Kent in UK, stay 3 nights, then back to Paris for
    > > > flight home. We draw up this itinerary with the specific objective of
    > > > minimizing the travelling distance from one destination to another.
    > > > Can we improve on it?
    > >
    > > I think you would be far better off with a more compact trip rather than
    > > having such very little time in such far distant spots as Kent and Malaga
    > >
    > > That said -- less is more -- 2 nights gives you one real day, 3 nights
    > > gives you two real days -- and those long trips eat up your time in
    > > logistics of getting in and out of hotels, to trains and traveling and
    > > then finding hotels etc etc -- and it is exhausting. 5 nights in Paris
    > > will give you far more to see do and enjoy than two days in Switzerland,
    > > two days in England and a fragmented hops in and out of Paris.
    > >
    > > You are going through Paris 3 times. At the very least spend your last
    > > 4 nights there rather than dividing your time -- that gives you no shot
    > > at enjoying Paris -- and having done this myself, you will rue the day
    > > you build a trip that involved international trips on consecutive days
    > > e.g. Kent to Paris to Singapore. It makes the entire end of your trip
    > > about logistics.
    > >
    > > If you must go to Spain for some personal reason -- then fly into Madrid
    > > and out of Paris -- if that is impossible then do the spain segment and
    > > go from there to England [assuming you have some personal reason to
    > > need to go to Kent] and then Finish in Paris. Drop Geneva at least.
    > >
    > > The only excuse for this stretched out trip with so much wasted travel
    > > time is that you have relatives or some other personal reason for
    > > visiting such far flung spots.
    > >
    > > If I were you and MUST fly into Paris and MUST go to Spain -- I would
    > > just do the Spanish leg of this and Paris -- and cut out Geneva and
    > > England.
    > >
    >
    > I would also explore air fare -- it is often ridiculously cheap to fly
    > among European cities -- you need to travel very light for economical
    > airlines -- but I would think you might find it cheaper to fly from
    > Spain to England for example, and certainly from England to Paris than
    > to use the train. And that saves time on those long stretches. We did
    > a 5 night sidetrip to Barcelona from Rome one time at very little cost.
    > And Florence to Paris by plane would have been much cheaper than the
    > night train we took because we had 80 pounds of books we had to haul.
    >
    > I would be surprised if you would save anything using a rail pass

Many thanks for the valuable feedback. Here is my amended intinerary.
Is it any better?

Fly to Paris arrival in the morning
Stay 2N in Paris
Either fly from Paris to Malaga by RyanAir or EasyJet or overnight
train from Paris to Malaga.
Stay 5N with friends in Malaga
From Malaga take overnight train to Barcelona stay 2N
Then take overnight train to Paris and stay 3N
Take eurostar to Gatwick stay 5N with friends in Kent
Take eurostar back to Paris for flight home

Does anyone know what the overnight train journey is like, eg. from
Paris to Malaga, Malaga to Barcelona, Barcelona to Paris, roughly how
long they take, the train departure times and whether it is better to
buy eurotrain pass or not?

barney

In article <>,
(sean) wrote:

    > Fly to Paris arrival in the morning
    > Stay 2N in Paris
    > Either fly from Paris to Malaga by RyanAir or EasyJet or overnight
    > train from Paris to Malaga.
    > Stay 5N with friends in Malaga
    > From Malaga take overnight train to Barcelona stay 2N
    > Then take overnight train to Paris and stay 3N
    > Take eurostar to Gatwick stay 5N with friends in Kent
    > Take eurostar back to Paris for flight home

It's looking more practical, but IWHT you should still consider flying
from Barcelona to London and adding the three Parisian nights onto the end
or beginning of the trip - unless of course you have engagements which
compel this schedule.

Aitor

Hi Sean,

On 6 Feb 2004 03:25:38 -0800, (sean) wrote:

    > How long is the rail
    >journey all the way from Paris to Malaga in Spain?

I think it is about 18-22 hours, I have never done it, but have
travelled around. Check French http://www.sncf.fr and Spanish
http://www.renfe.es Railway Companies' websites.

    > Would it be better
    >for us to make a stopover at Madrid and stay one night there?

It is up to you. It depends on what do you want to visit.

    > If we do
    >that, how long is the rail journey from Madrid to Malaga?

About 6 hours or so.

    >After Malaga, we plan to travel to Barcelona, stay 3 nights, then
    >travel to Geneve stay 3 nights, then travel to Paris stay 2 nights and
    >after that travel to Kent in UK, stay 3 nights, then back to Paris for
    >flight home. We draw up this itinerary with the specific objective of
    >minimizing the travelling distance from one destination to another.
    >Can we improve on it?

Improve? Not going to so many distant places... at least it is not
what I would do, a lot of time in a train and when you arrive to
destination you are tired and want to sleep. Have you considered air?

Regards,

Aitor
http://w3.to/travellers

Jenn

In article <>,
(sean) wrote:

    > Jenn <> wrote in message
    > news:<jenn->...
    > > In article <jenn->,
    > > Jenn <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > In article <>,
    > > > (sean) wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Hi seasoned travellers. Your valuable feedback and tips on our
    > > > > forthcoming travel to Europe in May would be much appreciated.
    > > > >
    > > > > Our itinerary is from Singapore, fly to Paris and stay 1 night in
    > > > > Paris, then travel to Malaga, stay 5 nights. How long is the rail
    > > > > journey all the way from Paris to Malaga in Spain? Would it be better
    > > > > for us to make a stopover at Madrid and stay one night there? If we do
    > > > > that, how long is the rail journey from Madrid to Malaga?
    > > > >
    > > > > After Malaga, we plan to travel to Barcelona, stay 3 nights, then
    > > > > travel to Geneve stay 3 nights, then travel to Paris stay 2 nights and
    > > > > after that travel to Kent in UK, stay 3 nights, then back to Paris for
    > > > > flight home. We draw up this itinerary with the specific objective of
    > > > > minimizing the travelling distance from one destination to another.
    > > > > Can we improve on it?
    > > >
    > > > I think you would be far better off with a more compact trip rather than
    > > > having such very little time in such far distant spots as Kent and Malaga
    > > >
    > > > That said -- less is more -- 2 nights gives you one real day, 3 nights
    > > > gives you two real days -- and those long trips eat up your time in
    > > > logistics of getting in and out of hotels, to trains and traveling and
    > > > then finding hotels etc etc -- and it is exhausting. 5 nights in Paris
    > > > will give you far more to see do and enjoy than two days in Switzerland,
    > > > two days in England and a fragmented hops in and out of Paris.
    > > >
    > > > You are going through Paris 3 times. At the very least spend your last
    > > > 4 nights there rather than dividing your time -- that gives you no shot
    > > > at enjoying Paris -- and having done this myself, you will rue the day
    > > > you build a trip that involved international trips on consecutive days
    > > > e.g. Kent to Paris to Singapore. It makes the entire end of your trip
    > > > about logistics.
    > > >
    > > > If you must go to Spain for some personal reason -- then fly into Madrid
    > > > and out of Paris -- if that is impossible then do the spain segment and
    > > > go from there to England [assuming you have some personal reason to
    > > > need to go to Kent] and then Finish in Paris. Drop Geneva at least.
    > > >
    > > > The only excuse for this stretched out trip with so much wasted travel
    > > > time is that you have relatives or some other personal reason for
    > > > visiting such far flung spots.
    > > >
    > > > If I were you and MUST fly into Paris and MUST go to Spain -- I would
    > > > just do the Spanish leg of this and Paris -- and cut out Geneva and
    > > > England.
    > > >
    > >
    > > I would also explore air fare -- it is often ridiculously cheap to fly
    > > among European cities -- you need to travel very light for economical
    > > airlines -- but I would think you might find it cheaper to fly from
    > > Spain to England for example, and certainly from England to Paris than
    > > to use the train. And that saves time on those long stretches. We did
    > > a 5 night sidetrip to Barcelona from Rome one time at very little cost.
    > > And Florence to Paris by plane would have been much cheaper than the
    > > night train we took because we had 80 pounds of books we had to haul.
    > >
    > > I would be surprised if you would save anything using a rail pass
    >
    > Many thanks for the valuable feedback. Here is my amended intinerary.
    > Is it any better?
    >
    > Fly to Paris arrival in the morning
    > Stay 2N in Paris
    > Either fly from Paris to Malaga by RyanAir or EasyJet or overnight
    > train from Paris to Malaga.
    > Stay 5N with friends in Malaga
    > From Malaga take overnight train to Barcelona stay 2N
    > Then take overnight train to Paris and stay 3N
    > Take eurostar to Gatwick stay 5N with friends in Kent
    > Take eurostar back to Paris for flight home

is there a reason you can't go to Kent to visit your friends and then
spend all your Paris time consecutively? Why go to Paris then Kent then
back to Paris -- why not go to Kent and then spend all your last days in
Paris?
    >
    > Does anyone know what the overnight train journey is like, eg. from
    > Paris to Malaga, Malaga to Barcelona, Barcelona to Paris, roughly how
    > long they take, the train departure times and whether it is better to
    > buy eurotrain pass or not?

on the very long trip you will want a night train and a compartment --
I'd recommend going with one that fits your group rather than a large
one e.g. couchettes with 6 people. and check flight costs -- I'll bet
you could fly from Barcelona to London for far less than train costs.
And train passes are unlikely to be a bargain -- but that is something
you test by costing it out.