Ptravel

"Jeremy" <> wrote in message
news:BD1CB7B6.225C1%...
    > On 15/7/04 22:22, in article , "PTRAVEL"
    > <ptravel88-> wrote:
    > >
    > > "Jeremy" <> wrote in message
    > > news:BD1CB05F.2235D%...
    > >> On 15/7/04 21:49, in article , "PTRAVEL"
    > >> <ptravel88-> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>
    > >>> "Jeremy" <> wrote in message
    > >>> news:BD1CA90E.22356%...
    > >>>> On 15/7/04 21:30, in article , "PTRAVEL"
    > >>>> <ptravel88-> wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> "Jeremy Henderson" <> wrote in message
    > >>>>> news:...
    > >>
    > >> [...]
    > >>
    > >>>> You
    > >>>> could argue that in a sense the Govt of Israel is the government of
    > > Jews
    > >>>> worldwide.
    > >>>
    > >>> You will undoubtedly argue it, but you're completely wrong. Even
Israel
    > >>> doesn't pretend to such a position. The government of Israel is the
    > >>> government of Israel -- it doesn't govern non-Israeli Jews, nor does
it
    > >>> attempt to. It certainly has no jurisdiction over American Jews, nor
do
    > >>> American Jews vote for the Israeli government.
    > >>
    > >> The point is that the Israeli govt claims to represent the interests of
    > > Jews
    > >> worldwide.
    > >
    > > No it doesn't, nor has it ever.
    > Of course it does - it claims to provide a sanctuary for persecuted Jews
of
    > whatever nationality. Are you seriously denying that?

No, I'm not denying that. What has that to do with "representing the
interests of Jews worldwide"?

    > > The government of Israel represents the
    > > interests of Israelis, which include Jews, Christians, Muslims, atheists
and
    > > agnostics. It considers itself a "Jewish State," but it doesn't speak
for,
    > > or represent, non-Israeli Jews anymore than Saudi Arabia, which is a
"Muslim
    > > State," speaks for or represents American adherents of Islam.
    > >
    > >> Jews bear a weight of responsibility for its actions because they
    > >> are in a unique position to influence those actions.
    > >
    > > What nonsense. Do you think that, if I were to write a letter to Sharon
    > > saying, "Hey, knock it off," it would have any more influence than if my
    > > non-Jewish wife did?
    > Yes, I do.

Well, I think you're wrong.

    > And I further think that if you persuaded 100 of your fellow Jews

"My fellow Jews"? Who are they?


    > to write to Sharon, and to your Congreessman, it would have more influence
    > than if 100 "goyim" did likewise.
    > > The only way I could have more influence over Israel
    > > than, say, my wife, is if I were to move there and become an Israeli
    > > citizen, at which point I could try to vote out the existing government.
    > > However, since I am an American, and have no interest in giving up my
    > > American citizenship and moving to Israel, my influence over the Israeli
    > > government is exactly the same as my wife's, which is to say, none.
    > Not at all - the US has control of the Israeli purse strings, so as a US
    > citizen in a sense you have more control of Israeli policy than does an
    > Israeli citizen.

I'd agree that US citizens, en masse, have more influence than, for example,
Canadian citizens, en masse. However, my influence over Israel is no
greater than any other American.

    > >> If the New Zealanders
    > >> impose diplomatic sanctions on Israel, then the Israelis can just say
they
    > >> don't care and continue as usual. If a Jewish group in the US, say,
    > > refused
    > >> to meet with a visiting Israeli politician, it might get home a bit
    > > better.
    > >
    > > If a Christian group in the US, say, refused to meet with a visiting
Israeli
    > > politician, it would drive the point home equally as well. If all
Americans
    > > who feel as you do wrote their respective Congress people, it would,
    > > undoubtedly, influence Congress which, in turn, could have considerable
    > > influence over Israel. However, the majority of Americans don't seem to
    > > feel the issue is as one-sided as you do.
    > I think every word of what you have written here is patently false. The
fact
    > that you wrote it down, and apparently believe it, leads me to believe
that
    > there is no point discussing the matter further. I don't feel I have
    > anything to gain by continuing to state the obvious, or reading arguments
    > that fly in the face of the clear evidence and of common sense. Therefore
    > I'm sorry but won't be responding to your further posts on the issue.

And I think every word that you've written is patently false, and worse.
You can respond or not as your choose.

    > If you want to have the last word, please go ahead.

I have.

    > J;

George H. Foster

"ian maclure" <> wrote in news:pan.2004.07.15.18.32.25.42037
@svpal.org:

    > To determine what sort of target the whackos might attack in
    > France we have to ask ourselves what do the cheese eating
    > surrender monkeys value most.

My sediments exactly. I just tossed out 3 I could see some value as
propaganda. For all I know the Ossuary of Douaumont at Verdun might be on
the list.

Malev

On 15 Jul 2004 18:32:27 GMT, "ian maclure" <> wrote:



    > To determine what sort of target the whackos might attack in
    > France we have to ask ourselves what do the cheese eating
    > surrender monkeys

Godwin status achieved
Free entry to killfile
Free fu2 alt.idiots

Malev

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:25:28 +0200, Magda <> wrote:

    >On 15 Jul 2004 18:32:27 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "ian maclure" <> arranged
    >some electrons, so they looked like this :
    >
    > ... I believe the nature of targets in Paris is fundamentally
    > ... different than for NYC because of the nature of building
    > ... restrictions which limit height.
    > ... A target like the Louvre Museum might qualify as a high
    > ... impact site but the kind of concentrated humanity that
    > ... the WTC represemnted isn't that easy to come by.
    >But the Louvre is full of mercans any day. Good choice !

This macclure idiot is real dumb & dumber material.
He is in my killfile, anyway.

Richard

(FransHals) wrote in message news:<>...
    > Coming to a european or UK train near you.
    >
    > http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/449966.html
    > Mother, baby attacked on Paris train after mistaken for Jews
    >
    > By AFP
    >
[snip]

    >
    >
    > Notice how the politically correct BBC reported the story:
    > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3884983.stm
    >
    > I am suprised the French, BBC, UN and others did not blame this attack
    > on Bush.
    >
    > Islam is such a peaceful religion and no I don't think Sharon & the
    > Israelis are saints either but the muslims are facists. Both sides
    > should go back to the Middle East where they can kill each other
    > there.

Are you now going to give as much prominence to the fact that the
woman is a serial fantasist who has admitted fabricating this story?

Richard Miller

Bill Gamelson

    >>Are you now going to give as much prominence to the fact that the
    >>woman is a serial fantasist who has admitted fabricating this story?

The Liberal media hasn't reported that part.

Dave Smith

Bill Gamelson wrote:

    > >>Are you now going to give as much prominence to the fact that the
    > >>woman is a serial fantasist who has admitted fabricating this story?
    > The Liberal media hasn't reported that part.

Is that a particular group of newpapers/radio.television, or do you dismiss all
media as Liberal (as if it were a bad thing)?
At any rate..... the media did indeed report it. In fact, that's how you know
about it. Duh.

Alex

Bill Gamelson wrote:

    >>>Are you now going to give as much prominence to the fact that the
    >>>woman is a serial fantasist who has admitted fabricating this story?
    >
    >
    > The Liberal media hasn't reported that part.

Ahem:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3897303.stm

'Race attack' woman faces trial
A member of the Jewish community looks at a desecrated tombstone in
Herrlisheim, France on 30 April 2004

The French woman who falsely claimed she had been the victim of an
anti-Semitic attack has been ordered to stand trial.

A court in a Paris suburb freed the woman, known as Marie, on condition
she returns on 26 July to face charges of reporting an imaginary offence.

She has admitted having invented the story of the attack by a gang of
North Africans on a Paris suburban train.

Her claims outraged France and drew condemnation from President Chirac.

The 23-year-old faces a sentence of up to six months in jail and a fine
of 7,500 euros.

Mxsmanic

Alex writes:

    > The 23-year-old faces a sentence of up to six months in jail and a fine
    > of 7,500 euros.

She's a young woman and a mom, so she won't receive any punishment at
all.

Olivers

Mxsmanic extrapolated from data available...

    > ian maclure writes:
    >
    >> An attitude they absorbed from their neighbours.
    >
    > How many tanks and gunships do the Palestinians have?
    >

None, but only because their politicians are so corrupt that instead of
being cheated by arns sellers, they stole the entire contents of the public
purse for themselves.

....and on one side, many of the foreign "donations" went as "production
payments and royalties" to the bereaved families of mad bombers, while on
the other funds from individual US supporters go to "build" what can only
be infected and aggravated cysts, "settlements" on the West Bank as certain
to inflame the Palestinians as were the first colonial settlements across
the Apppalachians inevitably to inflame the French and the Indians. In a
similar analogy, we could equate the payments to the families of the
bombers with the brandy and trade goods "donated" by the French to their
Indian "allies" back in the 1750s. Fortunately, I suppose, the Israeli
military has no General Amherst to suggest the passing of blankets formerly
warming smallpox patients to the Indians to minimize their awkward and
obstructive presence.

About all the passing of time permits is the certainty that men and women
will repeat the gross errors of the past....or to twist the philosopher's
words, history continues to be made by folks who obviously never read it.

TMO