Palgia

> Not talking about the age where one can legally drop out of school but
> the age most graduate and that is age 17.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Don't know where you get that crap from. I graduated HS in the US and
> went on to college and obtained a degree. The same could be said of
> my nephew who graduated and went on to Washington and Lee University
> and then on to George Washington University for his law degree. My
> niece graduated from the same public school system as her brother
> above and received a full academic and sports scholarships to St.
> John's University.
>
> You are talking apples and pineapples. There are students don't give
> a rat's arse for learning and their parents don't care about their
> child's education is not the same as those students who do care and
> want to learn and excel into higher levels of learning in their
> schools and go on to higher education and careers outside of retail
> and MacDonald's.

The average academic level of a US High School graduate is WAY below
that of European (or most of the world, for that matter) peer. Sorry to
break it to you, but it's the truth.

I am not making some groundbreaking statement here. It is a well known
fact. Why do you think you cannot get in a French, German, Italian,
Spanish, Japanese, (fill in) university with a US high school diploma?

Unless you had the chance to experience different high school programs
(A-level, IB, French Baccalaureate, Italian Maturita`, etc) you can't
really comment on my statement.

Having said that, there are some good private high schools in the US
that hold students to very high standards. Furthermore, it is completely
possible for a capable student to graduate from an average US public
high school AND make it to a US ivy league student and be the most
successful person in the world! That has nothing to do with my statement
regarding high school academic standards.

Istoleabloke

> The average academic level of a US High School graduate is WAY below
> that of European (or most of the world, for that matter) peer. Sorry
> to break it to you, but it's the truth.
>
> I am not making some groundbreaking statement here. It is a well known
> fact. Why do you think you cannot get in a French, German, Italian,
> Spanish, Japanese, (fill in) university with a US high school diploma?
>
> Unless you had the chance to experience different high school programs
> (A-level, IB, French Baccalaureate, Italian Maturita`, etc) you can't
> really comment on my statement.
>
> Having said that, there are some good private high schools in the US
> that hold students to very high standards. Furthermore, it is
> completely possible for a capable student to graduate from an average
> US public high school AND make it to a US ivy league student and be
> the most successful person in the world! That has nothing to do with
> my statement regarding high school academic standards.

Hubby (from England) and I ran into this very issue when his daughter
was going to move to the US with him a couple of years ago. This is what
we found out online and upon visits to the high school and state
university to sort it out.

Upon completing the GCSE, it is normally considered equivalent to a
senior (last year) of basic high school in the US. However, his daughter
had just completed one year of A-levels. This turned out to equate to
the US AP (Advance Placement) courses (that most senior US students take
that intend to go to college/university). Therefore, the last year of
GCSE and 1st year of A-levels were the equivalent of attending the
senior year of US high school and taking the AP courses.

The 2nd year of A-level equated to the freshman (1st year) of university
in the US. (Speaking generally of course, dependent on classes/grades.)

At the time they would move to the US, his daughter would have completed
only her first A-level year and the university stated she would have
been eligible for the freshman (1st) year there.

I say would have because she decided to remain in England at the time.

ETA: If the OPs stepdaughter only completes the GCSE she would
probably find it difficult to go straight to a university (or be
admitted), but will probably be best to go to a high school as a
senior to take the AP courses mentioned above to prepare for
university (if she wants to attend)...at least from what we were
informed when we investigated the matter.

Hcj1440

> The average academic level of a US High School graduate is WAY below
> that of European (or most of the world, for that matter) peer. Sorry
> to break it to you, but it's the truth.
>
> I am not making some groundbreaking statement here. It is a well known
> fact. Why do you think you cannot get in a French, German, Italian,
> Spanish, Japanese, (fill in) university with a US high school diploma?
>
> Unless you had the chance to experience different high school programs
> (A-level, IB, French Baccalaureate, Italian Maturita`, etc) you can't
> really comment on my statement.
>
> Having said that, there are some good private high schools in the US
> that hold students to very high standards. Furthermore, it is
> completely possible for a capable student to graduate from an average
> US public high school AND make it to a US ivy league student and be
> the most successful person in the world! That has nothing to do with
> my statement regarding high school academic standards.

I agree generally with the statement that a US high school diploma, in
and of itself, doesn't mean a thing.

Even to US universities, a H.S. diploma on its own doesn't mean a thing.
Of course it's a *requirement* -- but it's a "no duh" requirement.
There are so many other factors that you are judged on for admissions,
including SAT scores, coursework taken (honors/AP classes?), your
performance in those classes, your extra curricular activities, etc.

Palgia -- you seem to have a rather poor opinion of US high schools.
Not that I disagree entirely, but it may surprise you to learn that the
majority of Ivy League + Stanford students graduated from US public
schools. I rather resent your implication that most or even half of
the people who graduate from public high schools are idiots who
wouldn't get into university in any other part of the world. I
understand that we wouldn't get in with just a high school diploma and
would need to show other qualifications such as AP scores, but many do
have these other qualifications. True, a diploma in and of itself
doesn't mean a whole lot, but we do have other standards to distinguish
one student from another.

Palgia

> I agree generally with the statement that a US high school diploma, in
> and of itself, doesn't mean a thing.
>
> Even to US universities, a H.S. diploma on its own doesn't mean a
> thing. Of course it's a *requirement* -- but it's a "no duh"
> requirement. There are so many other factors that you are judged on
> for admissions, including SAT scores, coursework taken (honors/AP
> classes?), your performance in those classes, your extra curricular
> activities, etc.
>
> Palgia -- you seem to have a rather poor opinion of US high schools.
> Not that I disagree entirely, but it may surprise you to learn that
> the majority of Ivy League + Stanford students graduated from US
> public schools. I rather resent your implication that most or even
> half of the people who graduate from public high schools are idiots
> who wouldn't get into university in any other part of the world. I
> understand that we wouldn't get in with just a high school diploma and
> would need to show other qualifications such as AP scores, but many do
> have these other qualifications. True, a diploma in and of itself
> doesn't mean a whole lot, but we do have other standards to
> distinguish one student from another.

hcj1440,

I agree 100% with everything you said. I do have a poor opinion of US
public high school, but I am not blaming the students for that. In fact,
I have a very poor opinion of MOST public school systems in the world
because I feel not enough resources are invested in what is IMHO the
most important investment in a country's future. Every country's
eduational system has its problems. In the US, I feel the low academic
standards are the biggest issue. Again, I am not making any discoveries.
A quick search will reveal many studies to show this.




I am in NO WAY WHATSOEVER implying that US High School graduatea are
idots! All I am saying is that they are not challenged/prepared to the
same academic level as most other countries. The students are the
victims, not the cause. It is true however that a US high school diploma
would not get them into a university anywhere else in the world. It's
not MY opinion, it's just a fact.



Maybe at the undergraduate level. If you look at the list of graduate
and PhD students at the top US universities you will see more than 50%
have Chinese, Korean, Russian, Japanese, Hispanic, french or Italian
last names.

Meauxna

> hcj1440,
>
> I agree 100% with everything you said. I do have a poor opinion of US
> public high school, but I am not blaming the students for that. In
> fact, I have a very poor opinion of MOST public school systems in the
> world because I feel not enough resources are invested in what is IMHO
> the most important investment in a country's future. Every country's
> eduational system has its problems. In the US, I feel the low academic
> standards are the biggest issue. Again, I am not making any
> discoveries. A quick search will reveal many studies to show this.
>
>
>
>
> I am in NO WAY WHATSOEVER implying that US High School graduatea are
> idots! All I am saying is that they are not challenged/prepared to the
> same academic level as most other countries. The students are the
> victims, not the cause. It is true however that a US high school
> diploma would not get them into a university anywhere else in the
> world. It's not MY opinion, it's just a fact.
>
>
>
> Maybe at the undergraduate level. If you look at the list of graduate
> and PhD students at the top US universities you will see more than 50%
> have Chinese, Korean, Russian, Japanese, Hispanic, french or Italian
> last names.

I thought it was so interesting that this article was published this
week. Meant to post it earlier....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/11...ning.pains.ap/

Winds of change rattle European universities
Change is rattling Europe's temples of learning.

Resistance remains fierce, driven by fears of the "Americanization" --
or commercialization -- of higher education.

But economic realities are overpowering those who maintain that
universities should impart universal knowledge, not pave the way to a
job. Too many European graduates are getting welfare checks instead of
paychecks.

Europe's universities don't provide the skills and research needed to
help the continent prosper and compete with rapidly growing economies in
Asia and elsewhere, according to international rankings, school
presidents, students and European Union officials.


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