NOLA_Dave

Originally posted by MissKris81
    > Yes and a guy that
robbed a bank will eventually get out of jail, so why even put him in
there...
    >
    > Come on...

Victimless crime vs non-
victimless crime.

Ian-Mstm

Originally posted by NOLA_Dave
    > Victimless crime vs non-
victimless crime.

Hmmm.... Immigration fraud isn't a "non-
victimless" crime... just ask those who read this forum. Do you truly
believe that the wait for security checks and various other permissions
has nothing to do with immigration fraud?

Ian

Buendia

Originally posted by NOLA_Dave
    > Victimless crime vs non-
victimless crime.

Although working and studying in this
country was illegal, she did go to an attorney to straighten things out.
Her intent was to do the right thing, but she got bad legal advice.

And
in my opinion, the immigration system is difficult and convoluted. My
friends thought WE had somehow made things more difficult on ourselves
by not just coming into the country on a VWP and staying... they
haven't had any experience with US immigration and think this is
perfectly legal. I am a stickler for research (like almost everyone on
this NG or we wouldn't be here in the first place), but without that
research, you might think it was ok to simply come to the US and worry
about a greencard later. It is basically this way in Ireland, which was
why I was able to move there with David.

So I think the problem is
partly with the system itself.

But I have to disagree with the
victimless crime thing... when the system is misunderstood and therefore
abused, the victims are those of us who are going through the
immigration process legally. But, I still think intent is important,
and I don't think this woman intended to break the law and was trying to
remedy the fact that she'd broken the law when she first arrived...

..
and I definitely think that there should be some legal channel to take
to allow her to adjust to some legal status. But if that means her
husband has to take a leave of absence for a year to live in Panama, he
should. I did exactly that to be with my husband, and though it was
often difficult, for us it was the right thing to do.

NOLA_Dave

Originally posted by ian-mstm
    > Hmmm.... Immigration
fraud isn't a "non-victimless" crime... just ask those who read this
forum. Do you truly believe that the wait for security checks and
various other permissions has nothing to do with immigration fraud?
    >
Ian

She came in on a 3-month visitor's visa, and didn't ever
leave. She went to school for crying out loud, and probably didn't use
a fake name. Immigration could have tracked her down by now, they just
didn't care. I'm not saying what she did was right, I'm just saying in
this particular case it would do more harm than good if they deported
her. If immigration really had a problem with it they could have
deported her years ago.

Again, I'm not saying it's a good thing. We're
doing the legal thing and complaining about the wait,too. I just would
have thought that with all everyone on this board been through, we, as a
group, would be a little more sympathetic to that family's plight.
Instead, we just say "Serves her right". It's just cold hearted, and
that was the point I was trying to make.

Maryanne Kehoe

BUT the post-9/11 immigration controls have been directed at those of us
who ARE "following the rules".....you only have to be on this board for
several weeks to read some of the (very!) sad stories on this board. As
Mrs. Atlanta International 2005, that is one of the reasons why I am
working on my platform of "Immigration Rights for Foreign Spouses of US
Citizens." You can get mad---or get mad, get constructive and try to do
something about it.


Kerry proposed an overhaul of immigration law. One of his proposals is
that if you are here on any kind of visa (student, visitor, H1B. etc)
and you want to stay and get permanent residency, you should be able to
do so without going back to your home country, as long as you are *not*
in an overstay status.

However, the lady was here illegally, but couldn't she have applied for
the amnesty that happened about 5 years ago? I would like to know what
she told her prospective husband about her immigration status. And we
wonder why those of us that are doing things the LEGAL way have long
waits----it's because there are a minority that want to skirt the
system.

Inquisitive40

Reading the story and reading in between the lines ( I know I shouldn't
    :) ), seems what happened was, the girl got really crappy legal advice,
I know the only lay people that know anything about immigration rules
here in the US are people who have been through it, the average US
citizen has no idea about immigration laws. From what I see the girl
came into the country, stayed with her sister for a while, then someone
must've suggested that her sister could sponsor her to live here, they
got a bad attorney and he tried this, they failed,, then they did
numerous appeals, at the end of it all she married a USC but it was
really too late for that cause her case was already a mess and she
basically was in deportation proceedings when she tried to adjust status
through marriage.
I agree with Buendia, a friend of mine married a girl
from Hong Kong, it took them 10 minutes to process their immigration and
she was legal in the country. So many people do not understand the
complexity of the immigration system here.
My only question about this
case though is, did she use a false SSN? Here in California you need a
SSN to attend classes in local college, I think this girl did what many
people have done and thought it was "OK" to us a false SSN and that some
time down the road she could become legal, I know I was offered a false
SSN from an acquaintaince and only for the fact that I knew how serious
it is to use one, I might have said yes.

Was a funny story from a
Pakistani neighbor post 9/11, immigration arrested one of her frineds
sons (3 sons in total) the neighbour could not undrerstand why they had
been arrested she said "they had good SSN which they paid $1000 each
for, how can immigration arrest them?" now that is how uneducated some
people can be.

Has anything really changed with immigration since 9/11?
Or is it just that everything is now documented better now (I know when
I entered the US in Ireland pre 9/11 immigration didn't even write
anything down, was a very informal few questions).

My final words would
be that I hope things work out for this couple in some way, if they are
legit (more so if she legitimately married him for love and not a green
card) I hope they find a way. It is hard sometimes not to be cynical
about stories like this and think "married for green card" , a lot of
these cases the USC is the innocent victim.
Patrick

Ian-Mstm

Originally posted by NOLA_Dave
    > Immigration could have
tracked her down by now, they just didn't care.

I dunno...
immigration already has its hands full just keeping track of those who
are legally here!

Originally posted by NOLA_Dave
    > I
just would have thought that with all everyone on this board been
through, we, as a group, would be a little more sympathetic to that
family's plight.

Actually, I am sympathetic - at least, in
the sense that I regret that her family has been adversely affected by
her actions... her daughter especially. I would think that a smart
lawyer could file suit on behalf of the daughter on the grounds that she
is a 3rd party affected by immigration's ruling but is not a party to
the actual proceeding.

Ian

Inquisitive40

Originally posted by ian-mstm
    > I dunno... immigration
already has its hands full just keeping track of those who are legally
here!
    >
    >
    >
    > Actually, I am sympathetic - at least, in the sense
that I regret that her family has been adversely affected by her
actions... her daughter especially. I would think that a smart lawyer
could file suit on behalf of the daughter on the grounds that she is a
3rd party affected by immigration's ruling but is not a party to the
actual proceeding.
    >
    > Ian


The question I wonder about
cases like this is whether the daughter being born in the US has any USC
rights?
Patrick

Margaret

Amazing how many people feel that you can just come into the U.S.,
marry a USC, stay, not file paperwork and come and go as they please.
Those same people who believe you are granted automatic U.S.
citizenship by marrying a USC.

Ian-Mstm

Originally posted by inquisitive40
    > The question I
wonder about cases like this is whether the daughter being born in the
US has any USC rights?

As a USC, she enjoys all the rights and
privileges accorded her, but she's not in a legal position to exercise
or assert those rights. She is not subject to deportation, but her mom
is taking her out of the country because the father would rather let the
girl be with her mother than cut back on his work hours or hire a nanny!


After posting my last response, I got to thinking that it's sad that
the mom and dad are pretty much forcing her to leave the country. I'm
one of those who feels that it's not always in the best interest of the
child to remain with the mother. In this case though, with the father
being such a weanie, maybe it's for the best.

Sometime y'just want to
knock them upside the head and ask what they were thinking!

Ian