Charlie Hammond

In article <oQLqc.1423$>,
(Kurt Ullman) writes:

    > Paying for the vacation and sustaining the LOSS of the vacation
    >are two entirely different things. ...

Perhaps, but in context they are the same -- either way you no longer
have the money.

Charlie Hammond

In article <%fMqc.2394$>,
"Skip Elliott Bowman" <> writes:

    >With all due respect, I disagree. If I understand you correctly, should
    >people save for twice as much as their vacation should cost? ...

However did you get that out of what I wrote?

    > ... Airlines are not responsible for cancellations due to
    >inclement weather, and hurricanes qualify as inclement weather. They may
    >refund your money but legally they aren't obligated to do so.

Legalities aside, my experience is that airlines will issue a credit for
future travel for pretty much ANY reason. Your risk here is around
US$50-100 per person.


    >We take far too much for granted, and vacations are supposed to be memorable
    >not traumatic. IMHO Insuring a vacation to the tropics, especially during
    >hurricane season, is prudent at the very least.

Obvioiusly, opinions differ.
Mine is that the amount you pay for such insurance is not worth it.

Charlie Hammond

In article <>, Ron Knight <> writes:
    >On Wed, 19 May 2004 16:10:38 GMT, hammond@ (Charlie
    >Hammond) wrote:
    >>In article <GTwqc.598$>,
    >>"Skip Elliott Bowman" <> writes:
    >> [emphasis added]
    >>> THERE ARE SEVERAL DIFFERENT POLICIES AVAILABLE AND ALL ARE A LOT
    >>>CHEAPER THAN HAVING TO LOSE YOUR $$ OR YOUR VACATION.
    >>I'm sorry to point out that this last is not correct.
    >>Casualty insurance alwasy cost more than it pays out.
    >>This is becasue it has to pay sales commissions and other business
    >>expences in addition to what it pays out. Insurance companies make money.
    >Sure they do, but only in the aggregate, pooling all persons who pay
    >premiums and pooling the much smaller number of persons who make
    >claims. This does not mean that an individual claimant will pay more
    >in premiums that he collects on his claim.

You can aggregate it over a number of different people or over a number
of vacations for the samm individual. In the later case, the individual
WILL come out ahead over time.


    >You also neglect the fact that insurance companies invest the premiums
    >they collect and make profits on those investments independent of the
    >relative inflow and outflow of premiums and claims. ...

What we are discussing here is CASUALTY insurace. The time value of money
makes a *B*I*G* difference for whole life insurace; it has some effect
for multi-year life inurance. For pure caualty insurance, it is not a
significant factor -- there simply is not enough time between collecting
premiums and paying claims for the "miracle of compound interest" to work
its magic.

When premiums exceed claims that is called profit. You can safely bet
that the insurance companies do NOT use profits or the interest earned
on them to reduce future premiums.
(Some mutual companies do make "refunds" when premiums exceed claims, but
I'd be very suprised to see this happen with vacation insurance.)

Rosalie B .

hammond@ (Charlie Hammond) wrote:

    >In article <%fMqc.2394$>,
    >"Skip Elliott Bowman" <> writes:

    >>We take far too much for granted, and vacations are supposed to be memorable
    >>not traumatic. IMHO Insuring a vacation to the tropics, especially during
    >>hurricane season, is prudent at the very least.
    >Obvioiusly, opinions differ.
    >Mine is that the amount you pay for such insurance is not worth it.

I have to agree with Charlie. I have taken out trip insurance. But
once when it looked like I wasn't going to get to my flight home in
time because the travel agent screwed up the reservations from the
last stop to the airport I asked whether that would be covered, and
the answer was no it wouldn't.

So my view of insurance is that they won't insure you if they think
they will lose their money. So if they will insure you, you probably
don't need the insurance because either it is unlikely to be needed or
there will be some clause in the fine print that will allow them to
get out of paying.

The PRUDENT thing to do if you take a vacation during the hurricane
season is NOT to insure the vacation but to not spend any more than
you can afford to lose, and to have alternate plans. Also to ask the
places where you are going to spend your money what their policies are
BEFORE putting your money down - and then not going there if the
answer is not satisfactory to you.


grandma Rosalie

Cruising Chrissy

    >> I got an "A" for Breasts 101 from the High School football team.
    >> Oh, yeah, sure, look down your monitor to catch a peek.

On 18 May 2004 23:27:13 -0700, (Salty) wrote:

    >You say, "Look down your monitor to catch a peek." Let me clarify
    >here. You're saying look ** down ** ?? You're sagging that damn
    >much ??!!

No I am sitting down.

    >Yikes !! I think I'll pass on your sagging Breast 101. Thanks
    >anyway.

Anyone whose boobs are over 35, or has had children, that aren't
sagging, bought them.

Kurt Ullman

In article <5ANqc.27$>, "Jess Englewood"
<> wrote:

    >I used to believe this to be savvy policy, then I got ill two days before a
    >two week trip to the Solomons. Even considering premiums not paid on past
    >trips I still took a considerable loss. In this case trip insurance would
    >have been a good idea, in all other cases I would have paid for coverage not
    >utilized.
My wife and figured out and if we have to cancel only 1 out of every 7
trips, we break even. The nice thing about insurance is if I have to cancel
out the Christmas trip, then I have the money to replace it at Spring Break.
If I don't, I don't.

Kurt Ullman

In article <JdOqc.1877$>, hammond@
wrote:
    >In article <oQLqc.1423$>,
    > (Kurt Ullman) writes:
    >> Paying for the vacation and sustaining the LOSS of the vacation
    >>are two entirely different things. ...
    >Perhaps, but in context they are the same -- either way you no longer
    >have the money.
But if go on the vacation you get the value for your money, at least in
theory (g). If you sustain the loss of the money you get neither the money or
the value (memories, good food, seeing new places, etc.) You lose twice.

Brian K

On 05/19/2004 12:10 PM Charlie Hammond plucked Senior Frog's Magic
Twanger and said:

    >In article <GTwqc.598$>,
    >"Skip Elliott Bowman" <> writes:
    >
    >>Hurricane season is June 1 through November 30, with most gales forming
    >>mid-July through November. While this is no reason not to go or to cancel
    >>existing plans, a prudent option would be to hedge your plans with
    >>insurance.
    >>
    > [emphasis added]
    >
    >> THERE ARE SEVERAL DIFFERENT POLICIES AVAILABLE AND ALL ARE A LOT
    >>CHEAPER THAN HAVING TO LOSE YOUR $$ OR YOUR VACATION.
    >>
    >I'm sorry to point out that this last is not correct.
    >Casualty insurance alwasy cost more than it pays out.
    >This is becasue it has to pay sales commissions and other business
    >expences in addition to what it pays out. Insurance companies make money.
    >Because of this, the general rule is NOT to insure any loss you can
    >afford to sustain. Well, if you can't afford the cost of your vacation,
    >then stay home.
    >Also keep in mind that you will probably NOT loose all of your vacation
    >money. Most resorts and airlines will (inspite of the original posters
    >statements) make a full or partial refund under most conditions --
    >certainly if a hurrican makes thier providing the contracted services
    >impossible.
    >My advice is to SAVE the money you would pay for trip insurance.
    >Every few years you'll have saved enough to treat yourself to a
    >better vacation -- maybe even a "free" one.
    >
My sister is an experienced travel agent. Airfare comes under "Act of
God" in the situation of a hurricane. If you miss your flight due to a
hurricane, there is no refund. It's not the airline's fault that a
hurricane prevented the flight from taking place. Likewise for any
connecting flights missed.

If you are at your destination when a hurricane strikes, the airline may
choose to reaccomdate you with a flight at their convenience after the
storm. Essentially, you are flying "standby". Most trip insurance
usually has an "Act of God" clause also. If you buy trip insurance,
always read the fine print to see what is covered and what is not.

Sam

"Charlie Hammond" <hammond@> wrote in message
news:GvPqc.1891$...
    > O.K., opinions differ on whether trip insurance is good or worthless.
    > But there is another question lurking here:
    > Should hurricane season or predictions be a factor in your choice to
    > purchase trip insurance?
    > My answer is no. Even in the hight of a bad hurricane season, the chances
    > that a particular location will have a hurricane in a particular 7-10
    > day span remains very low.
    > So I would say, if yoy like trip insurance, but it; if you don't, don't.
    > But don't base your decision on hurricane predictions.
    > --

Exactly MY point. After traveling for decades I have seen bad conditions
once or twice. Take it for what it is. If I insured each trip I would have
paid bigtime. Should anyone listen to the Evening News style of weather
reporting telling the worst possible condition and to alter their trip
because of it? NO. Has anyone ever canceled a well planned trip due to a
springtime hurricane season report? I don't think so. I live in the north
east of America where we hear of pending doom due to bloated snow reports
each season. Does it change my life style? NOT. Once again I ask has anyone
ever heard of a MILD hurricane season approaching? Now they are trying to
scare everyone with the GLOBAL WARMING effect being the cause. Just relax
and get on with your life.

Sam

Charlie Hammond

O.K., opinions differ on whether trip insurance is good or worthless.
But there is another question lurking here:

Should hurricane season or predictions be a factor in your choice to
purchase trip insurance?

My answer is no. Even in the hight of a bad hurricane season, the chances
that a particular location will have a hurricane in a particular 7-10
day span remains very low.

So I would say, if yoy like trip insurance, but it; if you don't, don't.
But don't base your decision on hurricane predictions.