David Horne

Susan Wachob <> wrote:

    > The first time we went, we found that our ATM didn't work because our
    > pin number was only 4 numbers and in europe it needed to be at least 5.
    > But that was when ATMs were fairly new.
    >
    > Does anyone know if that's changed? I can't imagine that would still be
    > a problem since so many people travel getting their money that way. I've
    > been to Europe many times since and I don't remember still having that
    > problem- but we may have just used credit cards- can't remember.

I've not had that problem, I must admit- and the last time I was in
Italy was 1997. At that time, I do remember that my card didn't always
work (local network- or problems with my bank, I'm not sure)- but it
usually did- and a 4-digit PIN was fine.

David

Barbara Vaughan

Susan Wachob wrote:
    >
    > The first time we went, we found that our ATM didn't work because our
    > pin number was only 4 numbers and in europe it needed to be at least 5.
    > But that was when ATMs were fairly new.
    >
    > Does anyone know if that's changed? I can't imagine that would still be
    > a problem since so many people travel getting their money that way. I've
    > been to Europe many times since and I don't remember still having that
    > problem- but we may have just used credit cards- can't remember.

My American debit card has a 4-digit pin and it works just fine in
Italy. Actually, one of my Italian cards also has a 4-digit pin.

Barbara

Ronald Hands

Susan Wachob wrote:
    > The first time we went, we found that our ATM didn't work because our
    > pin number was only 4 numbers and in europe it needed to be at least 5.
    > But that was when ATMs were fairly new.
    >
    > Does anyone know if that's changed?

Used my Canadian ATM card earlier this year in France, and just last
week in Italy. Worked fine with 4-digit PIN.

-- Ron

Giovanni Drogo

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, tile wrote:

    > i think that from venice to ravenna it is better to hire a car.
[...]
    > I definitely recommend hiring a car.

don't be misled by the above statements, it is quite possible to get
around using public transport if (unlike the unfortunate majority of
italians) you feel about using trains and buses !

    > as to restaurants.. 20 dollars will not bring you very far expecially in
    > tourist places.

You should of course avoid tourist-traps. Also you do not need to eat a
full restaurant n-course dinner both at lunch and supper, specially if
you are touring around and want to "stay light". There are plenty of
places which are cheaper particularly for lunch (often the same place
makes two diffrent prices for lunch and supper), just follow the crowds
of clerks and students. If you just want a single course (which many
people do nowadays) or a sandwich , or a pizza+beer you can pay less
despite recent post-euro price increases.

Timothy J. Lee

In article <Pine.OSF.4.30.0310151252330.5106->,
Giovanni Drogo <> wrote:
    >credit cards are OK, I've no idea if foreign ATM cards are compatible
    >with our Pagobancomat POS system in shops or with our ATM Bancomat, but
    >they will also take credit cards.

I've used a foreign (to Italy) ATM card in bank ATMs in Italy to get
Euros from them.

Terryo

Susan Wachob <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > The first time we went, we found that our ATM didn't work because our
    > pin number was only 4 numbers and in europe it needed to be at least 5.
    > But that was when ATMs were fairly new.
    >

I believe it's the other way around. Your PIN must be 4 numbers, no
more and no less. In any case, mine has 4 numbers, and I've used it
all over Europe.

(Surprisingly hard to find ATMs in Berlin, though, while in Budapest
they are on almost every street corner. Go figure.)

Giovanni Drogo

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Timothy J. Lee wrote:

    > I've used a foreign (to Italy) ATM card in bank ATMs in Italy to get
    > Euros from them.

Are you sure on which circuit did the payment occur ?

The typical ATM card in Italy is a "Bancomat". Most people have the same
card connected to one of the international credit card circuits (either
VISA or Master Card).

If we go in the ATM of the bank (chain) who issued the card, we withdraw
from out account with no expenses.

If we go in the ATM of another italian bank, there is a small
fixed charge. I've always avoided using other banks for this reason (and
also because my bank has ATM in cabins, not just out on the street).

If we go in a shop, we can in general choose to use the card as
Pagobancomat (we type in the PIN, money withdrawn immediately from our
account, no charge for us, I ignore the commission for the shopkeeper)
or as credit card (no PIN, card recognised by the machine, we pay later
with the monthly credit card summary, commission for the shopkeeper).
Sometimes, at least with my card, the machine chooses ! Otherwise in
general I choose Pagobancomat for small sums, and credit card for
larger.

If I'd have to use the card in an ATM abroad I suspect (reading the
original documnetation which however dates some years ago) it is
considered a cash advance on the credit card, and there is either a fee
or a surcharge on the exchange rate. In fact for this reason I never
used my card abroad in ATMs (either cash or credit card) ... I did it
only once this summer (the SB station in the north of Denmark did not
take my credit card, so I had to pay cash, and needed further cash), and
I found it on my monthly credit card summary.

So I suspected it was reciprocal.

Jesper Lauridsen

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:16:40 GMT, "tile" <> wrote:

[all deleted]

While I'm sure that your article was both thoughtful and
informative, the constantly changing line lengths made
it unreadable.

Norman Perlmutter

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:09:16 +0200, Giovanni Drogo
<> wrote:

    >On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Timothy J. Lee wrote:
    >> I've used a foreign (to Italy) ATM card in bank ATMs in Italy to get
    >> Euros from them.
    >Are you sure on which circuit did the payment occur ?
    >The typical ATM card in Italy is a "Bancomat". Most people have the same
    >card connected to one of the international credit card circuits (either
    >VISA or Master Card).
    >If we go in the ATM of the bank (chain) who issued the card, we withdraw
    >from out account with no expenses.
    >If we go in the ATM of another italian bank, there is a small
    >fixed charge. I've always avoided using other banks for this reason (and
    >also because my bank has ATM in cabins, not just out on the street).
    >If we go in a shop, we can in general choose to use the card as
    >Pagobancomat (we type in the PIN, money withdrawn immediately from our
    >account, no charge for us, I ignore the commission for the shopkeeper)
    >or as credit card (no PIN, card recognised by the machine, we pay later
    >with the monthly credit card summary, commission for the shopkeeper).
    >Sometimes, at least with my card, the machine chooses ! Otherwise in
    >general I choose Pagobancomat for small sums, and credit card for
    >larger.
    >If I'd have to use the card in an ATM abroad I suspect (reading the
    >original documnetation which however dates some years ago) it is
    >considered a cash advance on the credit card, and there is either a fee
    >or a surcharge on the exchange rate. In fact for this reason I never
    >used my card abroad in ATMs (either cash or credit card) ... I did it
    >only once this summer (the SB station in the north of Denmark did not
    >take my credit card, so I had to pay cash, and needed further cash), and
    >I found it on my monthly credit card summary.
    >So I suspected it was reciprocal.
    >--
    >----------------------------------------------------------------------
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During my trip to Europe, including Italy, I used my ATM card from the
United States. The brand name of the card is Jeanie. The card is only
an ATM card; it does not function as a debit card (like pagobancomat)
or as a credit card. I was able to make withdrawals from virtually all
the ATMs I tried to use in Europe, and I was charged only a foreign
machine surcharge of $1.50, which is the same as I pay to use a
non-Jeanie ATM in the USA.

I also brought along my Mastercard, which I used primarily for online
hostel bookings. In general, I found that most places in Europe do
accept credit cards for large purchases, but some do not except them
for smaller purchases, but I did not use it extensively in stores, so
I can't say for certain..

Barbara Vaughan

Terryo wrote:
    >
    > Susan Wachob <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > > The first time we went, we found that our ATM didn't work because our
    > > pin number was only 4 numbers and in europe it needed to be at least 5.
    > > But that was when ATMs were fairly new.
    > >
    >
    > I believe it's the other way around. Your PIN must be 4 numbers, no
    > more and no less. In any case, mine has 4 numbers, and I've used it
    > all over Europe.

That's certainly not true, as I have one Italian card with a 5-digit pin
and a second with a 4-digit pin.

Barbara