Geir

On 11 Okt, 07:17, yesmigration <yesmigration.
2y9...@advice.forums.gettingdownunder.com> wrote:
> Dear Geir,
> Yes, the ETA is meant for "tourist". The current policy for ETA
> states;
> 14.3 Policy considerations
>
> Genuine visitors should be granted visas with the least delay. This
> must, however, be balanced against the need to ensure Visitor visas are
> not granted to those persons whose true intentions, at the time of
> applying for the visa, are to:
>
> · remain in Australia unlawfully
>
> · make refugee claims onshore
>
> · apply for migration or long term temporary residence onshore
>
> · use one or more Visitor visas to maintain ongoing residence in
> Australia ("de facto" residence)
>
> · work illegally in Australia or
>
> · not abide by the conditions of a Visitor visa.
>
> 14.4 Genuine visit
>
> Persons whose intention is to do any of the above are not considered to
> be intending a "genuine visit"......
>
> In your circumstance, you should consider delaying your departure until
> you get the proper documentation done.
>
> --
> yesmigration
> Posted viahttp://www.gettingdownunder.com

Thanks for the response.

That was the answer that I feared...
My wife will not be happy about it....

So, in conclusion, my wife who is, and
has always been, an Australian citizien
can not freely bring in her newborn baby to her
home country when the baby was born
overseas?

Are there any compassionate considerations?
My wife is going to attend a family wedding in Australia
once we get there, and her family are very eager to see
her. There is also illness in her immediate family....

The trip from Norway to Australia is long and expensive,
and especially tedious with young children. It is simply
not an option for her to bring the baby and go only for the
wedding and come back. We have been planning to move
for a long time, and the dates for this have been set.

What a depressing bureaucracy to deal with.....

Geir

texan....usenet

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:28:37 -0700, geir <>
wrote:

>On 11 Okt, 07:17, yesmigration <yesmigration.
>2y9...@advice.forums.gettingdownunder.com> wrote:
>> Dear Geir,
>> Yes, the ETA is meant for "tourist". The current policy for ETA
>> states;
>> 14.3 Policy considerations
>>
>> Genuine visitors should be granted visas with the least delay. This
>> must, however, be balanced against the need to ensure Visitor visas are
>> not granted to those persons whose true intentions, at the time of
>> applying for the visa, are to:
>>
>> · remain in Australia unlawfully
>>
>> · make refugee claims onshore
>>
>> · apply for migration or long term temporary residence onshore
>>
>> · use one or more Visitor visas to maintain ongoing residence in
>> Australia ("de facto" residence)
>>
>> · work illegally in Australia or
>>
>> · not abide by the conditions of a Visitor visa.
>>
>> 14.4 Genuine visit
>>
>> Persons whose intention is to do any of the above are not considered to
>> be intending a "genuine visit"......
>>
>> In your circumstance, you should consider delaying your departure until
>> you get the proper documentation done.
>>
>> --
>> yesmigration
>> Posted viahttp://www.gettingdownunder.com
>
>Thanks for the response.
>
>That was the answer that I feared...
>My wife will not be happy about it....
>
>So, in conclusion, my wife who is, and
>has always been, an Australian citizien
>can not freely bring in her newborn baby to her
>home country when the baby was born
>overseas?
>
>Are there any compassionate considerations?
>My wife is going to attend a family wedding in Australia
>once we get there, and her family are very eager to see
>her. There is also illness in her immediate family....

Does not sound like compassionate grounds.
>
>The trip from Norway to Australia is long and expensive,
>and especially tedious with young children.

Have you done it before with the children?
If so you should then be aware that you can select your seats to be in
the area where bassinetts can be provided.
And with any long haul journey with small children, buy a seat
otherwise it's too much for any parent to have to carry a child on
their knee.
If the child uses a car seat, take that and use it in the seat.

>It is simply not an option for her to bring the baby and go only for the
>wedding and come back. We have been planning to move
>for a long time, and the dates for this have been set.
>
>What a depressing bureaucracy to deal with.....
>
>Geir

In another post, you state you had a very stressful time obtaining a
passport.
Out of curiosity, why was it stressful?
Was there any procedure out of the norm i.e. filling in an
application, having photos taken, mailing it off w/payment etc that
caused this stress you speak of?

Cath

Geir

On Oct 11, 4:56 pm, texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom..
wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:28:37 -0700, geir <geirte...@adam.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On 11 Okt, 07:17, yesmigration <yesmigration.
> >2y9...@advice.forums.gettingdownunder.com> wrote:
> >> Dear Geir,
> >> Yes, the ETA is meant for "tourist". The current policy for ETA
> >> states;
> >> 14.3 Policy considerations
>
> >> Genuine visitors should be granted visas with the least delay. This
> >> must, however, be balanced against the need to ensure Visitor visas are
> >> not granted to those persons whose true intentions, at the time of
> >> applying for the visa, are to:
>
> >> · remain in Australia unlawfully
>
> >> · make refugee claims onshore
>
> >> · apply for migration or long term temporary residence onshore
>
> >> · use one or more Visitor visas to maintain ongoing residence in
> >> Australia ("de facto" residence)
>
> >> · work illegally in Australia or
>
> >> · not abide by the conditions of a Visitor visa.
>
> >> 14.4 Genuine visit
>
> >> Persons whose intention is to do any of the above are not considered to
> >> be intending a "genuine visit"......
>
> >> In your circumstance, you should consider delaying your departure until
> >> you get the proper documentation done.
>
> >> --
> >> yesmigration
> >> Posted viahttp://www.gettingdownunder.com
>
> >Thanks for the response.
>
> >That was the answer that I feared...
> >My wife will not be happy about it....
>
> >So, in conclusion, my wife who is, and
> >has always been, an Australian citizien
> >can not freely bring in her newborn baby to her
> >home country when the baby was born
> >overseas?
>
> >Are there any compassionate considerations?
> >My wife is going to attend a family wedding in Australia
> >once we get there, and her family are very eager to see
> >her. There is also illness in her immediate family....
>
> Does not sound like compassionate grounds.
>
>
>
> >The trip from Norway to Australia is long and expensive,
> >and especially tedious with young children.
>
>
> If so you should then be aware that you can select your seats to be in
> the area where bassinetts can be provided.
> And with any long haul journey with small children, buy a seat
> otherwise it's too much for any parent to have to carry a child on
> their knee.
> If the child uses a car seat, take that and use it in the seat.
>
> >It is simply not an option for her to bring the baby and go only for the
> >wedding and come back. We have been planning to move
> >for a long time, and the dates for this have been set.
>
> >What a depressing bureaucracy to deal with.....
>
> >Geir
>
> In another post, you state you had a very stressful time obtaining a
> passport.
> Out of curiosity, why was it stressful?
> Was there any procedure out of the norm i.e. filling in an
> application, having photos taken, mailing it off w/payment etc that
> caused this stress you speak of?
>
> Cath- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, we have done it with our oldest daughter.
Of course we know about basinettes...
But both my wife and I travelled together then,
and we could help each other. Doing it alone
would be very stressful for my wife.
And I do not think you got the point
about it being expensive to have to do
one extra return trip for my wife if she
wants to attend the wedding. As parents
of two children we have to be careful about
money spending.

>Out of curiosity, why was it stressful?
>Was there any procedure out of the norm i.e. filling in an
>application, having photos taken, mailing it off w/payment etc that
>caused this stress you speak of?

I hope that you are patronising us here...
The forms etc. are quite easy to fill
in. Very simple compared to spouse migration.

Last time we did not get our daughter's passport
until 24 hour before we were scheduled to leave
for Australia. And then we had to go into the main
post office to get help from some very helpful people
who were able to find the mail that had arrived late
that afternoon.
(We left on a Sunday.)

It took 2-3 weeks to get the Norwegian birth
certificate. Due to some unfortunate events
we waited/had to wait another 2-3 weeks before we
could send the application for citizenship by descent
off to the Australian Embassy in Berlin. We reiceived
the Australian birth certificate exactly 4 weeks after
we sent off the application. We then had to apply for
our daughters passport. Since there is no Australian
Embassy in Norway, we were supposed to go through
the emabssy either in UK or Germany. To
rush the procedure my wife was fortunate and
got an appointment at the consulate in Oslo to have
an interview conducted there. This was just due to
some very helpful staff there, and not the standard
procedure.
And then we waited and waited. The passport was only
sent from the handling embassy 3 days before we were
scheduled to leave. Needless to say those last days were
stressful. If our baby had not had her passport she would not
have been allowed to enter Australia. We were told
explicitly that as an Australian citizen she should not enter
Australia if she didn't have an Australian passport.

Unforseen things always come up, and I do not want
to have to go through this stress again. Hopefully it will
be processed faster this time.

But I do want to question the very principle of this.
My wife, who is an Australian citizen, can not
take her newborn baby freely into her home country.

Geir

-Gill Palmer

geir wrote:
> On Oct 11, 4:56 pm, texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom..
> wrote:
> > On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:28:37 -0700, geir <geirte...@adam.com.au>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >On 11 Okt, 07:17, yesmigration <yesmigration.
> > >2y9...@advice.forums.gettingdownunder.com> wrote:
> > >> Dear Geir,
> > >> Yes, the ETA is meant for "tourist". The current policy for ETA
> > >> states;
> > >> 14.3 Policy considerations
> >
> > >> Genuine visitors should be granted visas with the least delay. This
> > >> must, however, be balanced against the need to ensure Visitor visas are
> > >> not granted to those persons whose true intentions, at the time of
> > >> applying for the visa, are to:
> >
> > >> · remain in Australia unlawfully
> >
> > >> · make refugee claims onshore
> >
> > >> · apply for migration or long term temporary residence onshore
> >
> > >> · use one or more Visitor visas to maintain ongoing residence in
> > >> Australia ("de facto" residence)
> >
> > >> · work illegally in Australia or
> >
> > >> · not abide by the conditions of a Visitor visa.
> >
> > >> 14.4 Genuine visit
> >
> > >> Persons whose intention is to do any of the above are not considered to
> > >> be intending a "genuine visit"......
> >
> > >> In your circumstance, you should consider delaying your departure until
> > >> you get the proper documentation done.
> >
> > >> --
> > >> yesmigration
> > >> Posted viahttp://www.gettingdownunder.com
> >
> > >Thanks for the response.
> >
> > >That was the answer that I feared...
> > >My wife will not be happy about it....
> >
> > >So, in conclusion, my wife who is, and
> > >has always been, an Australian citizien
> > >can not freely bring in her newborn baby to her
> > >home country when the baby was born
> > >overseas?
> >
> > >Are there any compassionate considerations?
> > >My wife is going to attend a family wedding in Australia
> > >once we get there, and her family are very eager to see
> > >her. There is also illness in her immediate family....
> >
> > Does not sound like compassionate grounds.
> >
> >
> >
> > >The trip from Norway to Australia is long and expensive,
> > >and especially tedious with young children.
> >
> >
> > If so you should then be aware that you can select your seats to be in
> > the area where bassinetts can be provided.
> > And with any long haul journey with small children, buy a seat
> > otherwise it's too much for any parent to have to carry a child on
> > their knee.
> > If the child uses a car seat, take that and use it in the seat.
> >
> > >It is simply not an option for her to bring the baby and go only for the
> > >wedding and come back. We have been planning to move
> > >for a long time, and the dates for this have been set.
> >
> > >What a depressing bureaucracy to deal with.....
> >
> > >Geir
> >
> > In another post, you state you had a very stressful time obtaining a
> > passport.
> > Out of curiosity, why was it stressful?
> > Was there any procedure out of the norm i.e. filling in an
> > application, having photos taken, mailing it off w/payment etc that
> > caused this stress you speak of?
> >
> > Cath- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Yes, we have done it with our oldest daughter.
> Of course we know about basinettes...
> But both my wife and I travelled together then,
> and we could help each other. Doing it alone
> would be very stressful for my wife.
> And I do not think you got the point
> about it being expensive to have to do
> one extra return trip for my wife if she
> wants to attend the wedding. As parents
> of two children we have to be careful about
> money spending.
>
> >Out of curiosity, why was it stressful?
> >Was there any procedure out of the norm i.e. filling in an
> >application, having photos taken, mailing it off w/payment etc that
> >caused this stress you speak of?
>
> I hope that you are patronising us here...
> The forms etc. are quite easy to fill
> in. Very simple compared to spouse migration.
>
> Last time we did not get our daughter's passport
> until 24 hour before we were scheduled to leave
> for Australia. And then we had to go into the main
> post office to get help from some very helpful people
> who were able to find the mail that had arrived late
> that afternoon.
> (We left on a Sunday.)
>
> It took 2-3 weeks to get the Norwegian birth
> certificate. Due to some unfortunate events
> we waited/had to wait another 2-3 weeks before we
> could send the application for citizenship by descent
> off to the Australian Embassy in Berlin. We reiceived
> the Australian birth certificate exactly 4 weeks after
> we sent off the application. We then had to apply for
> our daughters passport. Since there is no Australian
> Embassy in Norway, we were supposed to go through
> the emabssy either in UK or Germany. To
> rush the procedure my wife was fortunate and
> got an appointment at the consulate in Oslo to have
> an interview conducted there. This was just due to
> some very helpful staff there, and not the standard
> procedure.
> And then we waited and waited. The passport was only
> sent from the handling embassy 3 days before we were
> scheduled to leave. Needless to say those last days were
> stressful. If our baby had not had her passport she would not
> have been allowed to enter Australia. We were told
> explicitly that as an Australian citizen she should not enter
> Australia if she didn't have an Australian passport.
>
> Unforseen things always come up, and I do not want
> to have to go through this stress again. Hopefully it will
> be processed faster this time.
>
> But I do want to question the very principle of this.
> My wife, who is an Australian citizen, can not
> take her newborn baby freely into her home country.
>
> Geir


Hi Geir

Good to hear from you again.

I've done some hunting around for you and it looks like ptlabs has
answered your question in a thread on British Expats.

The thread is here:

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...p+by+Des cent

If for any reason the link does not work, what Peter said was that a
child in your daughter's position would either need to be registered
as an Australian Citizen by descent and then enter Australia on an
Aussie passport, OR the child would need something called an
Australian Declaratory Visa in order to enter Australia on a non-
Australian passport.

The form for an Australian Declaratory Visa is Form 931 and it is
here:

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/931.pdf

It looks like this might be a visa that they can grant pretty quickly
because the form says that the overseas passport must be submitted
with the application. Would it be feasible for your wife to travel to
Berlin with the baby to try to hurry things up?

I'll see what else I can dredge up about these Australian Declaratory
Visas because it might be a viable solution for you, even though you
would have to do it via Berlin by the look of it.

If I were you, I think I would e-mail ptlabs and just check up on all
this. You can contact him via his website, which is here:

http://ptlabs.com.au/

He is an expert on Australian Citizenship as well as about visas

Best wishes

Gill

Geir

On 11 Okt, 19:52, Gill Palmer <gillpalmer2...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> geir wrote:
> > On Oct 11, 4:56 pm, texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit...usacom..
> > wrote:
> > > On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:28:37 -0700, geir <geirte...@adam.com.au>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > >On 11 Okt, 07:17, yesmigration <yesmigration.
> > > >2y9...@advice.forums.gettingdownunder.com> wrote:
> > > >> Dear Geir,
> > > >> Yes, the ETA is meant for "tourist". The current policy for ETA
> > > >> states;
> > > >> 14.3 Policy considerations
>
> > > >> Genuine visitors should be granted visas with the least delay. This
> > > >> must, however, be balanced against the need to ensure Visitor visas are
> > > >> not granted to those persons whose true intentions, at the time of
> > > >> applying for the visa, are to:
>
> > > >> · remain in Australia unlawfully
>
> > > >> · make refugee claims onshore
>
> > > >> · apply for migration or long term temporary residence onshore
>
> > > >> · use one or more Visitor visas to maintain ongoing residence in
> > > >> Australia ("de facto" residence)
>
> > > >> · work illegally in Australia or
>
> > > >> · not abide by the conditions of a Visitor visa.
>
> > > >> 14.4 Genuine visit
>
> > > >> Persons whose intention is to do any of the above are not considered to
> > > >> be intending a "genuine visit"......
>
> > > >> In your circumstance, you should consider delaying your departure until
> > > >> you get the proper documentation done.
>
> > > >> --
> > > >> yesmigration
> > > >> Posted viahttp://www.gettingdownunder.com
>
> > > >Thanks for the response.
>
> > > >That was the answer that I feared...
> > > >My wife will not be happy about it....
>
> > > >So, in conclusion, my wife who is, and
> > > >has always been, an Australian citizien
> > > >can not freely bring in her newborn baby to her
> > > >home country when the baby was born
> > > >overseas?
>
> > > >Are there any compassionate considerations?
> > > >My wife is going to attend a family wedding in Australia
> > > >once we get there, and her family are very eager to see
> > > >her. There is also illness in her immediate family....
>
> > > Does not sound like compassionate grounds.
>
> > > >The trip from Norway to Australia is long and expensive,
> > > >and especially tedious with young children.
>
> > > If so you should then be aware that you can select your seats to be in
> > > the area where bassinetts can be provided.
> > > And with any long haul journey with small children, buy a seat
> > > otherwise it's too much for any parent to have to carry a child on
> > > their knee.
> > > If the child uses a car seat, take that and use it in the seat.
>
> > > >It is simply not an option for her to bring the baby and go only for the
> > > >wedding and come back. We have been planning to move
> > > >for a long time, and the dates for this have been set.
>
> > > >What a depressing bureaucracy to deal with.....
>
> > > >Geir
>
> > > In another post, you state you had a very stressful time obtaining a
> > > passport.
> > > Out of curiosity, why was it stressful?
> > > Was there any procedure out of the norm i.e. filling in an
> > > application, having photos taken, mailing it off w/payment etc that
> > > caused this stress you speak of?
>
> > > Cath- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Yes, we have done it with our oldest daughter.
> > Of course we know about basinettes...
> > But both my wife and I travelled together then,
> > and we could help each other. Doing it alone
> > would be very stressful for my wife.
> > And I do not think you got the point
> > about it being expensive to have to do
> > one extra return trip for my wife if she
> > wants to attend the wedding. As parents
> > of two children we have to be careful about
> > money spending.
>
> > >Out of curiosity, why was it stressful?
> > >Was there any procedure out of the norm i.e. filling in an
> > >application, having photos taken, mailing it off w/payment etc that
> > >caused this stress you speak of?
>
> > I hope that you are patronising us here...
> > The forms etc. are quite easy to fill
> > in. Very simple compared to spouse migration.
>
> > Last time we did not get our daughter's passport
> > until 24 hour before we were scheduled to leave
> > for Australia. And then we had to go into the main
> > post office to get help from some very helpful people
> > who were able to find the mail that had arrived late
> > that afternoon.
> > (We left on a Sunday.)
>
> > It took 2-3 weeks to get the Norwegian birth
> > certificate. Due to some unfortunate events
> > we waited/had to wait another 2-3 weeks before we
> > could send the application for citizenship by descent
> > off to the Australian Embassy in Berlin. We reiceived
> > the Australian birth certificate exactly 4 weeks after
> > we sent off the application. We then had to apply for
> > our daughters passport. Since there is no Australian
> > Embassy in Norway, we were supposed to go through
> > the emabssy either in UK or Germany. To
> > rush the procedure my wife was fortunate and
> > got an appointment at the consulate in Oslo to have
> > an interview conducted there. This was just due to
> > some very helpful staff there, and not the standard
> > procedure.
> > And then we waited and waited. The passport was only
> > sent from the handling embassy 3 days before we were
> > scheduled to leave. Needless to say those last days were
> > stressful. If our baby had not had her passport she would not
> > have been allowed to enter Australia. We were told
> > explicitly that as an Australian citizen she should not enter
> > Australia if she didn't have an Australian passport.
>
> > Unforseen things always come up, and I do not want
> > to have to go through this stress again. Hopefully it will
> > be processed faster this time.
>
> > But I do want to question the very principle of this.
> > My wife, who is an Australian citizen, can not
> > take her newborn baby freely into her home country.
>
> > Geir
>
> Hi Geir
>
> Good to hear from you again.
>
> I've done some hunting around for you and it looks like ptlabs has
> answered your question in a thread on British Expats.
>
> The thread is here:
>
> http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...highlight=Citi...
>
> If for any reason the link does not work, what Peter said was that a
> child in your daughter's position would either need to be registered
> as an Australian Citizen by descent and then enter Australia on an
> Aussie passport, OR the child would need something called an
> Australian Declaratory Visa in order to enter Australia on a non-
> Australian passport.
>
> The form for an Australian Declaratory Visa is Form 931 and it is
> here:
>
> http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/931.pdf
>
> It looks like this might be a visa that they can grant pretty quickly
> because the form says that the overseas passport must be submitted
> with the application. Would it be feasible for your wife to travel to
> Berlin with the baby to try to hurry things up?
>
> I'll see what else I can dredge up about these Australian Declaratory
> Visas because it might be a viable solution for you, even though you
> would have to do it via Berlin by the look of it.
>
> If I were you, I think I would e-mail ptlabs and just check up on all
> this. You can contact him via his website, which is here:
>
> http://ptlabs.com.au/
>
> He is an expert on Australian Citizenship as well as about visas
>
> Best wishes
>
> Gill- Skjul sitert tekst -
>
> - Vis sitert tekst -

Thanks Gill! Good to see that you are still providing information and
helping people out.

Very useful information! As I've said earlier, we're hoping we've
got enough time for everything to be processed. But if worse
comes to worse it is good to know that there are ways out.

We got help from the consulate in Norway last
time, and since they're used to things being much easier here they
(during the inteview!) said it would probably have been better
to do the whole process of getting her Australian citizenship and
passport when we got to Australia. I don't think they even
thought about the fact that the ETA could have been used
against her/us when entering.

I wonder what could actually happen? As Peter says, 'Australian
citizens are legally immune from deportation from Australia', so
does this mean that they COULD send our/her baby out of the
country? (Due to work commitments I have to enter Australia
roughly a week after them, and my wife is planning to have her
mother accompany her back to Ausralia.)

My Australian wife, her Australian mother, our Australian
daughter and our Norwegian daughter (with an ETA to enter
Australia) could then enter Australia, with the possibility of
our 2.5 month old baby being deported?

Would probably be good entertainment in the
TV-show 'Border Patrol' in Australia...

Best regards,
Geir

Yesmigration

Dear Geir,

An ADV is an entry document issued *_only_* to Australian Citizens who
hold a foreign passort and who have compelling reasons for returning to
Australia without using their Australian passport.

That means that your baby still need to lodge an application for
Citizenship by Descent to be evidenced as an Australian citizen.
However, you may save some time in not having to apply for an
Australian passport by applying for the ADV.

We are all sympathetic to your predicament.