Drvr1

So we seem to have 4 positive votes. please correct if more

or less. Summary of ideas:



....

George Orwell supports the use of deadly force as does

Cochise~|||~Guardian who thinks the only good Mexican is "en

terra" (in the earth, in the ground) , Anonymous supports the use

of deadly force, I replied that this is "heartless" and

Oliver Costich responded that

"Sometimes heartless is what's needed for self preservation" so to him
it rises to a matter of self preservation. This is a very

serious claim and should not be taken lightly. If it is a matter

of self preservation then killing is an acceptable remedy....

Drvr1

Originally posted by drvr1

    > So we seem to have 4 positive votes. please correct if more

    > or less. Summary of ideas:


    > .....

    > George Orwell supports the use of deadly force as does

    > Cochise~|||~Guardian who thinks the only good Mexican is "en

    > terra" (in the earth, in the ground) , Anonymous supports the use

    > of deadly force, I replied that this is "heartless" and

    > Oliver Costich responded that

    > "Sometimes heartless is what's needed for self preservation" so to him
    > it rises to a matter of self preservation. This is a very

    > serious claim and should not be taken lightly. If it is a matter

    > of self preservation then killing is an acceptable remedy....





update:



Hü©K Hö§HïMöTö ! writes:





Re: Mexican Govs bitch at Schwarzenegger

"How DARE you sign against our 500,000 illegals a year (into California

alone) AND the 3 Billion dollars we cost you in Social Services! NOW you

should be more than happy to school then, feed them, etc. because our

government (Mexico) is so currupt, we cannot do it!"



**** 'em - shoot 'em at the border!





so we have 5 for killing.

Do we resort to killing people to solve economic

problems as some claim this is? Is the issue mainly economic?

or is it a classic case of hate he who is not from your tribe if

he wanders amongst you?

Movieguy

Originally posted by SanBernardino
    > Let me get this
straight. You are asking who thinks murder is acceptable?



All Americans of European stock are technically illegal aliens.


As a movie maker I have done extensive research on this.

The
so-called pilgrims were befriended by the true American

natives and
they repayed them with treachery and massacre.

these same criminals
and their relatives and descendents,

then branched out and
commited horrific crimes including

murder, rape and body
dismemberments of squaws private

organs, which they boastfully
used as tobacco-pouches.

These same people including General
Sherridan and others

some who were methodist ministers etc, then
invaded the

south west and plundered , destroyed, ravaged and stole


whatever they could get their dirty hands on from the Spanish


and Mexicans who were there loooooooong before. !

Drvr1

Crime agaisnt other "tribes" and people is, sadly, universal and not
limited to any people. Look at the recent Tutsi-Hutu
slaughter.

for
many, reaction to illegal immigration appear to
be tribal. Some deny
it but as I mentioned above a good
number of people here (not a
scientific sample) want to
kill. Economic problems? right! Who kills
to lower his taxes?





Originally posted by Movieguy
All Americans of European stock are technically illegal aliens.
    >
As a movie maker I have done extensive research on this.
    >
    > The
so-called pilgrims were befriended by the true American
    >
natives and they repayed them with treachery and massacre.
    >
these same criminals and their relatives and descendents,
    >
then branched out and commited horrific crimes including
    >
murder, rape and body dismemberments of squaws private
    >
organs, which they boastfully used as tobacco-pouches.
    >
    > These
same people including General Sherridan and others
    >
    > some who
were methodist ministers etc, then invaded the
    >
    > south west and
plundered , destroyed, ravaged and stole
    >
    > whatever they could
get their dirty hands on from the Spanish
    >
and Mexicans who were
there loooooooong before. !

Ilynat

I see nothing wrong with militarizing our
borders and creating a 10 mile killing zone
where anything that walks or crawls is
eliminated. A society that fails to
protect and preserve itself will not
continue to exist. I would willingly
man the border, shoot the illegals, and
sleep well at night. They, by their
knowledge of what will happen when they
enter the zone, would be responsible for
their own deaths.

There are legal ways to enter this country.
Why are we allowing our laws to be flaunted,
and considering a reward for those who do?

Drvr1

Well I follow Christ and cannot sleep well knowing there
are people
like you.

Not killing a person who is not armed (in case you are
not a
christian, clearly not) is something men with honor
understand.

How can
you justify your position?



{So we seem to have 5 positive votes.
please correct if more
or less. Summary of ideas:

....
George Orwell
supports the use of deadly force as does
Cochise~|||~Guardian who thinks
the only good Mexican is "en
terra" (in the earth, in the ground) ,
Anonymous supports the use
of deadly force, I replied that this is
"heartless" and
Oliver Costich responded that
"Sometimes heartless is
what's needed for self preservation" so to him it rises to a matter of
self preservation. This is a very
serious claim and should not be taken
lightly. If it is a matter
of self preservation then killing is an
acceptable remedy....
Ilynat writes:
"I see nothing wrong with
militarizing our
borders and creating a 10 mile killing zone
where
anything that walks or crawls is
eliminated. A society that fails to

protect and preserve itself will not
continue to exist. I would
willingly
man the border, shoot the illegals, and
sleep well at night.
"]





Originally posted by Ilynat
    > I see nothing wrong
with militarizing our
    > borders and creating a 10 mile killing zone
where anything that walks or crawls is
    > eliminated. A society that
fails to
    > protect and preserve itself will not
    > continue to exist. I
would willingly
    > man the border, shoot the illegals, and
    > sleep well
at night. They, by their
    > knowledge of what will happen when they
enter the zone, would be responsible for
    > their own deaths.
    >
    > There
are legal ways to enter this country.
    > Why are we allowing our laws to
be flaunted,
and considering a reward for those who do?

Gene

My grandfather was actually a little ashamed to claim his native american
ancestry around pure whites. ( due to a couple of generations of being
stomped down by land-hungry bigots ). My father was somewhat reluctant to
admit Indian Heritage around most folks during the 50s. Now the 60s and 70s
pass and everyone starts collecting and idolizing anything "indian". Go
figure. Having known personally several hundred "illegal folks" in my area,
I must say the ones I've known could be my neighbors anytime. They've shown
more humility and respect than many other "citizens" I've encountered.
Not being a specific race lover or hater, I see them subjectively. Good,
bad, and some quite ugly, though readily admitting to to mistakes when made.
Of course I can't speak for the entire Mexican (of which I'm speaking)
population as a whole, the cross-section, I've surmised, lends to some damn
good workmen, lovers of christian values, and some beautiful women.
(physically and otherwise.)
The 8 to 12 million undocumented aliens in this country estimation, I
think is too small. I think there's more like 18 to 20 million here, some
3rd generation. The sad thing is when you see grown kids deported to a
country they don't know, and in some instances they don't even speak the
spanish language anymore, being brought up american in american schools,
sometimes being the first time remembering being in Mexico. The wait time
at present is 10 to 12 years to get a green card for family members, of
course after spending thousands of tax-paid dollars to the INS and lawyers.
That of course after showing 3 years of w2 forms and guaranteeing to make
150% or more above the current poverty level for you and the proposed
immigrant (who may be your school janitor for years) (police records are
checked thouroughly)
Then having to pay a "coyote" about a thousand $ which is hard to make in
Mexico to go back home. Millions are driving on our hiways without auto
insurance. When they have an accident, they sometimes run, leaving their
vehicles never to reclaim regardless who's at fault. Feeding their families
is more important They can't get a ss#, so they can't get a driver's
license, so they can't get auto insurance (not to mention the other types of
insurance), so they're forced to run.
The Berlin wall didn't work.....neither will the "tortilla curtain". With
a little "lighter hand" policy directed to the rest of the world, America
will regain some of it's former respect worldwide, and create some long
overdue brotherhood with countries on the verge of disavowing their ties
with this country .....(due to Iraq in part). Nafta was a fiasco. No doubt
opening trade is always a good idea, Nafta not only caused millions of
americans to lose their jobs, it propelled unscroupulous slave-drivers to
open maquilladoras along the mexican frontier. This, of course caused the
real headache, India, Malasia, Korea, and other countries to openly compete,
(especially in high-tech and white collar positions) at sometimes one tenth
the american wage. Removal of the current administration would end the
program and begin to stimulate a more natural cycle of demand, thus bringing
up the wages and living standards we americans deserve. I think Bush is
probably a nice guy if he could have started with people who who weren't
self-protectionists. Growing up among oil tycoons no doubt clouds his
judgement. I'm afraid he can't see what us little american families have to
endure because of his enourmous tax gifts to the most wealthy, and how it
appears to Muslim countries.
Perhaps I've been lucky not to have known any real bad Hispanics, but I
know all groups of people have their dark side. they're here, lets face it.
It's impossibe to deport them all (a fact the BCIS don't like admitting)
because getting back across is just a minor setback for some who know the
routes well. Even if we had the resources, I wouldn't want to be the Hitler
beating them back under the statue that states, "give me your tired, your
poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched masses of
your teeming shore, offers her homage to thee".
The first good, powerful thing Bush proposed in office on immigration,
I'm afraid is politically tainted, even if George isn't aware.


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Gene

    > your teeming shore, offers her homage to thee".
    > The first good, powerful thing Bush proposed in office on immigration,
    > I'm afraid is politically tainted, even if George isn't aware.
    > ---oops, I meant "wretched refuse" of your teeming shores I
    > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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    > Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 - Release Date: 2/6/2004


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Ilynat

And is it honorable to allow foreigners to invade
one's country (for whatever reason), appropriate
all of our resources, pollute our culture, demand
the use of our tax dollars to raise and feed *their*
children, etc.??

I have locked doors on my house. If I were to
find someone inside who is there for the purpose
of taking from me what is mine, that which I have
worked hard to obtain, I would shoot them without
hesitation and without remorse. The boundaries
are clear, both with my home and with our country.
The consequences should be made clear, and those
who violate the boundaries are subject to them.
The moral burden is not on the enforcer, but on
the violator. Illegal aliens are like burglars
in our home, not here to help us but to take
advantage of all that we as Americans have worked
to build for ourselves. There are legal ways to
enter this country. My wife is an immigrant, and
we worked long and hard, following all the rules
to get her here legally. To give similar opportunities
or advantages to someone who sneaks across the
border at night is not an option. It's an insult
to all who have followed the rules to excuse
those who do not.

And Jesus has nothing to do with this discussion.
Bringing in Christianity is a distractor from the
real issue here.

drvr1 <member18662@british_expats.com> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Well I follow Christ and cannot sleep well knowing there
    > are people
    > like you.
    >
    > Not killing a person who is not armed (in case you are
    > not a
    > christian, clearly not) is something men with honor
    > understand.
    >
    > How can
    > you justify your position?
    >
    >
    >
    > {So we seem to have 5 positive votes.
    > please correct if more
    > or less. Summary of ideas:

Drvr1

You do not understand the function of political borders.
They define
zones of sovereignty and crossing them by
civilians from another nation
is called illegal entry not
invasion. You cannot take your gun to public
property
shoot a Mexican woman crossing the border and sleep
well, you
will sleep in prison, so don't try it.
(deadly fences and mines though
foolish in my view
are not the same thing as shooting people)

Of
course I did ask and at least you are honest which is
a food start.

If
you don't uderstand that the teaching of Lord Jesus
have to do with
killing, then I cannot begin to explain it
to you.

I believe
immigration like all things should be lawful but
there is lazy way of
doing it and yes I say it again
men with honor don't take their gun and
shoot a person
who is not armed.


Originally posted by
Ilynat
    > And is it honorable to allow foreigners to invade
    > one's
country (for whatever reason), appropriate
    > all of our resources,
pollute our culture, demand
    > the use of our tax dollars to raise and
feed *their*
    > children, etc.??
    >
    > I have locked doors on my house. If
I were to
    > find someone inside who is there for the purpose
    > of
taking from me what is mine, that which I have
    > worked hard to obtain,
I would shoot them without
    > hesitation and without remorse. The
boundaries
    > are clear, both with my home and with our country.
    > The
consequences should be made clear, and those
    > who violate the
boundaries are subject to them.
    > The moral burden is not on the
enforcer, but on
    > the violator. Illegal aliens are like burglars
    > in
our home, not here to help us but to take
    > advantage of all that we as
Americans have worked
    > to build for ourselves. There are legal ways to

    > enter this country. My wife is an immigrant, and
    > we worked long and
hard, following all the rules
    > to get her here legally. To give similar
opportunities
    > or advantages to someone who sneaks across the
    > border
at night is not an option. It's an insult
    > to all who have followed
the rules to excuse
    > those who do not.
    >
    > And Jesus has nothing to do
with this discussion.
    > Bringing in Christianity is a distractor from
the
    > real issue here.
    >
    > drvr1 <member18662@british_expats.com> wrote
in message news:<>...
    > > Well I
follow Christ and cannot sleep well knowing there
    > > are
people
    > > like you.
    > >
    > > Not killing a
person who is not armed (in case you are
    > > not a
    > christian, clearly not) is something men with honor
    > >
understand.
    > >
    > > How can
    > > you justify
your position?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
{So we seem to have 5 positive votes.
    > > please correct if
more
    > or less. Summary of ideas: