robertwojciechowski

I wonder if there is analysis already out - what impact did the
restrictive immigration policies in the US have on the competitiveness
of US economy in the world.

Every fourth patent is filed by an immigrant, half of companies in
Sillicon Valley are owned by immigrants. Even companies like Google
were started by immigrants. The US economy was so competitive over the
last 200 years because new immigrants with desire to make it - would
work really hard to create all the services in the US - many of them
realized their American Dream.

However new and new restrictions are put in place. The taxes are being
spent on building walls, new electronic systems to keep immigrants
out. And also on wars - but that is not the point here.

The top US institutions like Princeton Univ gets ferwer researchers
from abroad and students from abroad. So there is definitely less
influx of talented people. Will that impact the US economy in the long
term? There should be less companies like Google but at least people
should have a sense of security that fewer people down the road will
have an accent?

I would love to see comparison to Europe. Europe earlier was not a
welcoming continent to new nations. And yet almost all countries
opened their labour markets to Eastern European countries and managed
to grow and keep unemployment to the minimum. Obviously tabloids in
the UK still scare people about "Polish plumbers" deluge - but the
"Polish plumber" was not able to stifle the economy but rather helped
the economy grow.

It is really fascinating also to see so many people on this newsgroup
to have such a negative attitude towards immigrants. But I understand
that most of them are immigrants, went through psychological pain of
getting legalized or getting GC or US citizenship and now they give
back the pain. Just like a kid that is beaten by parents will beat its
own kids.

El Marac

<> wrote in message
news:...
>I wonder if there is analysis already out - what impact did the
> restrictive immigration policies in the US have on the competitiveness
> of US economy in the world.
>
> Every fourth patent is filed by an immigrant, half of companies in
> Sillicon Valley are owned by immigrants. Even companies like Google
> were started by immigrants. The US economy was so competitive over the
> last 200 years because new immigrants with desire to make it - would
> work really hard to create all the services in the US - many of them
> realized their American Dream.
>
> However new and new restrictions are put in place. The taxes are being
> spent on building walls, new electronic systems to keep immigrants
> out. And also on wars - but that is not the point here.
>
> The top US institutions like Princeton Univ gets ferwer researchers
> from abroad and students from abroad. So there is definitely less
> influx of talented people. Will that impact the US economy in the long
> term? There should be less companies like Google but at least people
> should have a sense of security that fewer people down the road will
> have an accent?
>
> I would love to see comparison to Europe. Europe earlier was not a
> welcoming continent to new nations. And yet almost all countries
> opened their labour markets to Eastern European countries and managed
> to grow and keep unemployment to the minimum. Obviously tabloids in
> the UK still scare people about "Polish plumbers" deluge - but the
> "Polish plumber" was not able to stifle the economy but rather helped
> the economy grow.
>
> It is really fascinating also to see so many people on this newsgroup
> to have such a negative attitude towards immigrants. But I understand
> that most of them are immigrants, went through psychological pain of
> getting legalized or getting GC or US citizenship and now they give
> back the pain. Just like a kid that is beaten by parents will beat its
> own kids.

Thoughtful intelligent post dude. relaxed my bones.

Thanx.

El Maracón
>

VernMan@my.home

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 11:14:39 -0700,
wrote:

>I wonder if there is analysis already out - what impact did the
>restrictive immigration policies in the US have on the competitiveness
>of US economy in the world.
>
>Every fourth patent is filed by an immigrant, half of companies in
>Sillicon Valley are owned by immigrants. Even companies like Google
>were started by immigrants. The US economy was so competitive over the
>last 200 years because new immigrants with desire to make it - would
>work really hard to create all the services in the US - many of them
>realized their American Dream.
>
>However new and new restrictions are put in place. The taxes are being
>spent on building walls, new electronic systems to keep immigrants
>out. And also on wars - but that is not the point here.
>
>The top US institutions like Princeton Univ gets ferwer researchers
>from abroad and students from abroad. So there is definitely less
>influx of talented people. Will that impact the US economy in the long
>term? There should be less companies like Google but at least people
>should have a sense of security that fewer people down the road will
>have an accent?
>
>I would love to see comparison to Europe. Europe earlier was not a
>welcoming continent to new nations. And yet almost all countries
>opened their labour markets to Eastern European countries and managed
>to grow and keep unemployment to the minimum. Obviously tabloids in
>the UK still scare people about "Polish plumbers" deluge - but the
>"Polish plumber" was not able to stifle the economy but rather helped
>the economy grow.
>
>It is really fascinating also to see so many people on this newsgroup
>to have such a negative attitude towards immigrants. But I understand
>that most of them are immigrants, went through psychological pain of
>getting legalized or getting GC or US citizenship and now they give
>back the pain. Just like a kid that is beaten by parents will beat its
>own kids.

Go visit Europe or do some research. Unemployment there is HUGE. Take
a look at Germany, Spain, England,Holland,France, Italy...
And do you have any idea of the taxation over there? I emigrated from
Europe 21 years ago, and at that time my tax rate was close to 60%. My
sister tells me it's still around that. Not to mention VAT. How would
you like to pay $8 for a gallon of gas or pay 19% tax on the new car
you think buying? How do you think they finance that "welfare system"
they have there? And once a person has been on the dole for a few
years and loses financial aid benefits, they get scrapped off the
unemployment lists. The official numbers for unemployment in all these
countries over there is artificially under reported, so the
politicians have something to brag about.
By the way, the Germans still pay a monthly fee to finance the
enormous deficit resulting from the "re-unification". When Germany
granted equal value to the East German mark and the West German Mark
(way before the Euro) you couldn't buy a second hand car in Germany
for over a year. They were all bought up cash by former East germans
who all of a sudden found a place to spend their money they had saved
in their socks.

Emd

European countries have even more strict immigration
laws than USA.....so does MEXICO!!!!!!!
And most countries are making their immigration laws
much TOUGHER.....

US laws do have exemptions for expert and educated
individuals as well as other talents when it is seen it
is good for the country, its biz and its citizens.....

HOWEVER, this does not mean that USA must
have carte blanche acceptance rules for any and all
who want to get in.....neither do many countries in
Europe.....

My grandparents, parents, and family were all born
in USA and we are descendants of various foreign
countries and cultures.....but we consider ourselves
AMERICAN and just because we are from these
other nations does NOT mean that we wish to allow or support
MILLIONS to come in from these countries......

Our nation is FULL just as any stadium is sold out for the Superbowl,
World Series, etc etc.....

Dont you people get it???????? the USA cannot support any more
than its own citizens....the USA gives enough to the world as it is... gives
more than any other country!!!!!!

So now we have the President of Mexico financing lawyers to keep mexican
illegals in the USA!!! What an insult!!!!!!!
We should sue Mexico for the cost of the illegals that are in our country
devouring our resources......

WHY dont illegals fight their own politicians for education, jobs etc
etc.....
march on the capitals of these countries.....wave your flags in your own
countries not the USA.....
The USA is NOT responsible for the greed and corruption of the leaders and
wealthy in foreign
countries.....and US Citizens should not have to pay and support those from
other countries.......

robertwojciechowski

On Oct 9, 12:03 am, "Vern...@my.home" <werne...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 11:14:39 -0700, robertwojciechow...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >I wonder if there is analysis already out - what impact did the
> >restrictive immigration policies in the US have on the competitiveness
> >of US economy in the world.
>
> >Every fourth patent is filed by an immigrant, half of companies in
> >Sillicon Valley are owned by immigrants. Even companies like Google
> >were started by immigrants. The US economy was so competitive over the
> >last 200 years because new immigrants with desire to make it - would
> >work really hard to create all the services in the US - many of them
> >realized their American Dream.
>
> >However new and new restrictions are put in place. The taxes are being
> >spent on building walls, new electronic systems to keep immigrants
> >out. And also on wars - but that is not the point here.
>
> >The top US institutions like Princeton Univ gets ferwer researchers
> >from abroad and students from abroad. So there is definitely less
> >influx of talented people. Will that impact the US economy in the long
> >term? There should be less companies like Google but at least people
> >should have a sense of security that fewer people down the road will
> >have an accent?
>
> >I would love to see comparison to Europe. Europe earlier was not a
> >welcoming continent to new nations. And yet almost all countries
> >opened their labour markets to Eastern European countries and managed
> >to grow and keep unemployment to the minimum. Obviously tabloids in
> >the UK still scare people about "Polish plumbers" deluge - but the
> >"Polish plumber" was not able to stifle the economy but rather helped
> >the economy grow.
>
> >It is really fascinating also to see so many people on this newsgroup
> >to have such a negative attitude towards immigrants. But I understand
> >that most of them are immigrants, went through psychological pain of
> >getting legalized or getting GC or US citizenship and now they give
> >back the pain. Just like a kid that is beaten by parents will beat its
> >own kids.
>
> Go visit Europe or do some research. Unemployment there is HUGE. Take
> a look at Germany, Spain, England,Holland,France, Italy...
> And do you have any idea of the taxation over there? I emigrated from
> Europe 21 years ago, and at that time my tax rate was close to 60%. My
> sister tells me it's still around that. Not to mention VAT. How would
> you like to pay $8 for a gallon of gas or pay 19% tax on the new car
> you think buying? How do you think they finance that "welfare system"
> they have there? And once a person has been on the dole for a few
> years and loses financial aid benefits, they get scrapped off the
> unemployment lists. The official numbers for unemployment in all these
> countries over there is artificially under reported, so the
> politicians have something to brag about.
> By the way, the Germans still pay a monthly fee to finance the
> enormous deficit resulting from the "re-unification". When Germany
> granted equal value to the East German mark and the West German Mark
> (way before the Euro) you couldn't buy a second hand car in Germany
> for over a year. They were all bought up cash by former East germans
> who all of a sudden found a place to spend their money they had saved
> in their socks.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I absolutely agree with you that Europe used to be xenophobic
continent where American Dream was impossible to realize. Europe was
one of the least welcoming places for immigrants. And the US was
taking advantage and doing the brain drain.

The issue is that this seems to be changing. The US is spending lots
of money (tax payers money) to build walls, immigrantion controls. The
US is putting more restrictive policies on foreign people.

Europe on the other hand is opening borders and inviting workers from
Eastern Europe.

Some data is already emerging as to the impact on the US in the form
of fewer noble prize winners, fewer scholars at top universities.

So what I was interested is to what extent the current policies are
working against the US. Clearer data will probably be available say 5
years from now - but I thought that there is already analysis out.

So the fact that Europe was worse and less competitive in the past is
true. The question is how big will be the negative impact on the US
with the current policies in place.

robertwojciechowski

On Oct 9, 6:45 am, "EMD" <e...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> European countries have even more strict immigration
> laws than USA.....so does MEXICO!!!!!!!
> And most countries are making their immigration laws
> much TOUGHER.....
>
> US laws do have exemptions for expert and educated
> individuals as well as other talents when it is seen it
> is good for the country, its biz and its citizens.....
>
> HOWEVER, this does not mean that USA must
> have carte blanche acceptance rules for any and all
> who want to get in.....neither do many countries in
> Europe.....
>
> My grandparents, parents, and family were all born
> in USA and we are descendants of various foreign
> countries and cultures.....but we consider ourselves
> AMERICAN and just because we are from these
> other nations does NOT mean that we wish to allow or support
> MILLIONS to come in from these countries......
>
> Our nation is FULL just as any stadium is sold out for the Superbowl,
> World Series, etc etc.....
>
> Dont you people get it???????? the USA cannot support any more
> than its own citizens....the USA gives enough to the world as it is... gives
> more than any other country!!!!!!
>
> So now we have the President of Mexico financing lawyers to keep mexican
> illegals in the USA!!! What an insult!!!!!!!
> We should sue Mexico for the cost of the illegals that are in our country
> devouring our resources......
>
> WHY dont illegals fight their own politicians for education, jobs etc
> etc.....
> march on the capitals of these countries.....wave your flags in your own
> countries not the USA.....
> The USA is NOT responsible for the greed and corruption of the leaders and
> wealthy in foreign
> countries.....and US Citizens should not have to pay and support those from
> other countries.......

It is hard to respond to such a thing. I mean really. What happened to
you.

J. J. Farrell

On Oct 9, 5:45 am, "EMD" <e...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> European countries have even more strict immigration
> laws than USA.....so does MEXICO!!!!!!!
> And most countries are making their immigration laws
> much TOUGHER.....
>
> US laws do have exemptions for expert and educated
> individuals as well as other talents when it is seen it
> is good for the country, its biz and its citizens.....
>
> HOWEVER, this does not mean that USA must
> have carte blanche acceptance rules for any and all
> who want to get in.....neither do many countries in
> Europe.....
>
> My grandparents, parents, and family were all born
> in USA and we are descendants of various foreign
> countries and cultures.....but we consider ourselves
> AMERICAN and just because we are from these
> other nations does NOT mean that we wish to allow or support
> MILLIONS to come in from these countries......
>
> Our nation is FULL just as any stadium is sold out for the Superbowl,
> World Series, etc etc.....

Don't be ridiculous.

> Dont you people get it????????

Not when you make silly statements like that above, no.

> the USA cannot support any more
> than its own citizens....

Of course it can ...

> the USA gives enough to the world as it is... gives
> more than any other country!!!!!!

... as that proves.

> So now we have the President of Mexico financing lawyers to keep mexican
> illegals in the USA!!! What an insult!!!!!!!
> We should sue Mexico for the cost of the illegals that are in our country
> devouring our resources......
>
> WHY dont illegals fight their own politicians for education, jobs etc
> etc.....
> march on the capitals of these countries.....wave your flags in your own
> countries not the USA.....

I've no idea; perhaps the USA shouldn't have let them in in the first
place.

> The USA is NOT responsible for the greed and corruption of the leaders and
> wealthy in foreign
> countries.....

In may cases (in the recent past at least) that's clearly untrue.

> and US Citizens should not have to pay and support those from
> other countries.......

Of course not.

VernMan@my.home

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 05:54:49 -0700,
wrote:


>
>I absolutely agree with you that Europe used to be xenophobic
>continent where American Dream was impossible to realize. Europe was
>one of the least welcoming places for immigrants. And the US was
>taking advantage and doing the brain drain.
>
>The issue is that this seems to be changing. The US is spending lots
>of money (tax payers money) to build walls, immigrantion controls. The
>US is putting more restrictive policies on foreign people.
>
>Europe on the other hand is opening borders and inviting workers from
>Eastern Europe.
>
>Some data is already emerging as to the impact on the US in the form
>of fewer noble prize winners, fewer scholars at top universities.
>
>So what I was interested is to what extent the current policies are
>working against the US. Clearer data will probably be available say 5
>years from now - but I thought that there is already analysis out.
>
>So the fact that Europe was worse and less competitive in the past is
>true. The question is how big will be the negative impact on the US
>with the current policies in place.


I was talking about the present, not the past.
If you're not able to go live in Europe for a few years to see for
yourself, do a google and look up some facts about unemployment in
Europe. Type in "unemployment in Europe"
Here's a site I found within a few seconds:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...41/ai_20974808

Europe has been opening borders for years. Now they are inundated with
millions of poorly educated and mostly unemployed free-riders from
Turkey, Morocco and the Balkan states. Some countries (e.g. Germany)
already have take steps to limit, and sometimes send back, these low
skilled "immigrants". Many other countries there are also regretting
the fact that they "opened" up their borders...

Joe Feise

wrote on 10/11/07 15:08:

Europe has been opening borders for years. Now they are inundated with
> millions of poorly educated and mostly unemployed free-riders from
> Turkey, Morocco and the Balkan states. Some countries (e.g. Germany)
> already have take steps to limit, and sometimes send back, these low
> skilled "immigrants". Many other countries there are also regretting
> the fact that they "opened" up their borders...

What a piece of uneducated BS. It seems you are one of these "millions of poorly
educated" people...

J. J. Farrell

On Oct 8, 11:03 pm, "Vern...@my.home" <werne...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 11:14:39 -0700, robertwojciechow...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
>
> >I wonder if there is analysis already out - what impact did the
> >restrictive immigration policies in the US have on the competitiveness
> >of US economy in the world.
>
> >Every fourth patent is filed by an immigrant, half of companies in
> >Sillicon Valley are owned by immigrants. Even companies like Google
> >were started by immigrants. The US economy was so competitive over the
> >last 200 years because new immigrants with desire to make it - would
> >work really hard to create all the services in the US - many of them
> >realized their American Dream.
>
> >However new and new restrictions are put in place. The taxes are being
> >spent on building walls, new electronic systems to keep immigrants
> >out. And also on wars - but that is not the point here.
>
> >The top US institutions like Princeton Univ gets ferwer researchers
> >from abroad and students from abroad. So there is definitely less
> >influx of talented people. Will that impact the US economy in the long
> >term? There should be less companies like Google but at least people
> >should have a sense of security that fewer people down the road will
> >have an accent?
>
> >I would love to see comparison to Europe. Europe earlier was not a
> >welcoming continent to new nations. And yet almost all countries
> >opened their labour markets to Eastern European countries and managed
> >to grow and keep unemployment to the minimum. Obviously tabloids in
> >the UK still scare people about "Polish plumbers" deluge - but the
> >"Polish plumber" was not able to stifle the economy but rather helped
> >the economy grow.
>
> >It is really fascinating also to see so many people on this newsgroup
> >to have such a negative attitude towards immigrants. But I understand
> >that most of them are immigrants, went through psychological pain of
> >getting legalized or getting GC or US citizenship and now they give
> >back the pain. Just like a kid that is beaten by parents will beat its
> >own kids.
>
> Go visit Europe or do some research. Unemployment there is HUGE.

Across the EU as a whole in 2006, under double that of the USA (7.9%
against 4.6%); hardly "HUGE". Some countries in Europe have a lower
unempoyment rate than the USA.

> Take a look at Germany,

8.4%

> Spain,

8.5%

> England,

Figures not available, but for the UK as a whole: 5.3%

> Holland,

Figures not available, but for the Netherlands as a whole: 3.9%

> France,

9.5%

> Italy...

6.8%

> And do you have any idea of the taxation over there?

Yes, an excellent idea.

> I emigrated from
> Europe 21 years ago, and at that time my tax rate was close to 60%. My
> sister tells me it's still around that. Not to mention VAT. How would
> you like to pay $8 for a gallon of gas or pay 19% tax on the new car
> you think buying? How do you think they finance that "welfare system"
> they have there?

Most people who have spent time working and living in both the USA and
the UK conclude that the overall effective tax rates are roughly the
same, especially if you factor in the costs in the USA for what you
get out of your taxes in the UK, such as the ludicrous "health system"
in the USA. It depends on many things of course, particularly where
you live. The phenomenal property taxes in parts of the USA take some
beating ...

> And once a person has been on the dole for a few
> years and loses financial aid benefits, they get scrapped off the
> unemployment lists. The official numbers for unemployment in all these
> countries over there is artificially under reported, so the
> politicians have something to brag about.

Nonsense.

> By the way, the Germans still pay a monthly fee to finance the
> enormous deficit resulting from the "re-unification". When Germany
> granted equal value to the East German mark and the West German Mark
> (way before the Euro) you couldn't buy a second hand car in Germany
> for over a year. They were all bought up cash by former East germans
> who all of a sudden found a place to spend their money they had saved
> in their socks.