J. J. Farrell

On Oct 11, 11:08 pm, "Vern...@my.home" <werne...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 05:54:49 -0700, robertwojciechow...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
>
> >I absolutely agree with you that Europe used to be xenophobic
> >continent where American Dream was impossible to realize. Europe was
> >one of the least welcoming places for immigrants. And the US was
> >taking advantage and doing the brain drain.
>
> >The issue is that this seems to be changing. The US is spending lots
> >of money (tax payers money) to build walls, immigrantion controls. The
> >US is putting more restrictive policies on foreign people.
>
> >Europe on the other hand is opening borders and inviting workers from
> >Eastern Europe.
>
> >Some data is already emerging as to the impact on the US in the form
> >of fewer noble prize winners, fewer scholars at top universities.
>
> >So what I was interested is to what extent the current policies are
> >working against the US. Clearer data will probably be available say 5
> >years from now - but I thought that there is already analysis out.
>
> >So the fact that Europe was worse and less competitive in the past is
> >true. The question is how big will be the negative impact on the US
> >with the current policies in place.
>
> I was talking about the present, not the past.
> If you're not able to go live in Europe for a few years to see for
> yourself, do a google and look up some facts about unemployment in
> Europe. Type in "unemployment in Europe"
> Here's a site I found within a few seconds:http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...41/ai_20974808

If you're "talking about the present, not the past" why are you giving
references to 10 year old opinion? Try http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/
for something up to date.

> Europe has been opening borders for years. Now they are inundated with
> millions of poorly educated and mostly unemployed free-riders from
> Turkey, Morocco and the Balkan states.

"Inundated"? Don't be ridiculous. In 2004 approximately 5.5% of the
population of EU countries were not citizens of that country; that
figure includes people from other EU countries (the Irish living in
Britain, the Britons living in Ireland, and so on). Of those, some are
likely to be poorly educated, some are likely to be unemployed, and
some might even be free-riders; many are hard-working productive
people such as doctors and nurses.

> Some countries (e.g. Germany)
> already have take steps to limit, and sometimes send back, these low
> skilled "immigrants". Many other countries there are also regretting
> the fact that they "opened" up their borders...

VernMan@my.home

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:07:54 -0700, "Joe Feise (Immigration)"
<> wrote:

> wrote on 10/11/07 15:08:
>
> Europe has been opening borders for years. Now they are inundated with
>> millions of poorly educated and mostly unemployed free-riders from
>> Turkey, Morocco and the Balkan states. Some countries (e.g. Germany)
>> already have take steps to limit, and sometimes send back, these low
>> skilled "immigrants". Many other countries there are also regretting
>> the fact that they "opened" up their borders...
>
>What a piece of uneducated BS. It seems you are one of these "millions of poorly
>educated" people...

Dude, I grew up in Europe (Belgium). I know what I am talking about. i
lived there, studied there and even got married there.
And no, it's my Ph.D and ability to speak 5 languages fluently that
let me obtain a Green Card and subsequently US Citizenship. I wouldn't
call that uneducated.
You, obviously have no clue what you are talking about. And if per
happenstance you live in Europe, you must be blind and dumb. If you
don't live in Europe and are a witness to what's going on over there,
obviously your only excuse to your ignorance is the fact that you
don't bother to research a topic before you spout off bullcrap with
your big mouth

VernMan@my.home

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:03:49 -0700, "J. J. Farrell" <>
wrote:

>On Oct 11, 11:08 pm, "Vern...@my.home" <werne...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 05:54:49 -0700, robertwojciechow...@hotmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I absolutely agree with you that Europe used to be xenophobic
>> >continent where American Dream was impossible to realize. Europe was
>> >one of the least welcoming places for immigrants. And the US was
>> >taking advantage and doing the brain drain.
>>
>> >The issue is that this seems to be changing. The US is spending lots
>> >of money (tax payers money) to build walls, immigrantion controls. The
>> >US is putting more restrictive policies on foreign people.
>>
>> >Europe on the other hand is opening borders and inviting workers from
>> >Eastern Europe.
>>
>> >Some data is already emerging as to the impact on the US in the form
>> >of fewer noble prize winners, fewer scholars at top universities.
>>
>> >So what I was interested is to what extent the current policies are
>> >working against the US. Clearer data will probably be available say 5
>> >years from now - but I thought that there is already analysis out.
>>
>> >So the fact that Europe was worse and less competitive in the past is
>> >true. The question is how big will be the negative impact on the US
>> >with the current policies in place.
>>
>> I was talking about the present, not the past.
>> If you're not able to go live in Europe for a few years to see for
>> yourself, do a google and look up some facts about unemployment in
>> Europe. Type in "unemployment in Europe"
>> Here's a site I found within a few seconds:http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...41/ai_20974808
>
>If you're "talking about the present, not the past" why are you giving
>references to 10 year old opinion? Try http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/
>for something up to date.

Thanks for the link. I went there and found the unemployment rates.
Seems to me from their data (at least from these tables) the
unemployment rate there in 2006 was roughly double that of the US and
Japan, with the exception of a hand full of countries. Some countries
were triple that rate.

>
>> Europe has been opening borders for years. Now they are inundated with
>> millions of poorly educated and mostly unemployed free-riders from
>> Turkey, Morocco and the Balkan states.
>
>"Inundated"? Don't be ridiculous.

When I go back to my hometown of Ghent (up until last January) I see
more and more "immigrants". Large parts of the city are virtually
indistinguishable from Istanbul, were it not for the weather.

>In 2004 approximately 5.5% of the
>population of EU countries were not citizens of that country; that
>figure includes people from other EU countries (the Irish living in
>Britain, the Britons living in Ireland, and so on). Of those, some are
>likely to be poorly educated, some are likely to be unemployed, and
>some might even be free-riders; many are hard-working productive
>people such as doctors and nurses.
>
>> Some countries (e.g. Germany)
>> already have take steps to limit, and sometimes send back, these low
>> skilled "immigrants". Many other countries there are also regretting
>> the fact that they "opened" up their borders...

J. J. Farrell

On Oct 12, 9:05 pm, "Vern...@my.home" <werne...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:03:49 -0700, "J. J. Farrell" <j...@bcs.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >On Oct 11, 11:08 pm, "Vern...@my.home" <werne...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 05:54:49 -0700, robertwojciechow...@hotmail.com
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >I absolutely agree with you that Europe used to be xenophobic
> >> >continent where American Dream was impossible to realize. Europe was
> >> >one of the least welcoming places for immigrants. And the US was
> >> >taking advantage and doing the brain drain.
>
> >> >The issue is that this seems to be changing. The US is spending lots
> >> >of money (tax payers money) to build walls, immigrantion controls. The
> >> >US is putting more restrictive policies on foreign people.
>
> >> >Europe on the other hand is opening borders and inviting workers from
> >> >Eastern Europe.
>
> >> >Some data is already emerging as to the impact on the US in the form
> >> >of fewer noble prize winners, fewer scholars at top universities.
>
> >> >So what I was interested is to what extent the current policies are
> >> >working against the US. Clearer data will probably be available say 5
> >> >years from now - but I thought that there is already analysis out.
>
> >> >So the fact that Europe was worse and less competitive in the past is
> >> >true. The question is how big will be the negative impact on the US
> >> >with the current policies in place.
>
> >> I was talking about the present, not the past.
> >> If you're not able to go live in Europe for a few years to see for
> >> yourself, do a google and look up some facts about unemployment in
> >> Europe. Type in "unemployment in Europe"
> >> Here's a site I found within a few seconds:http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...41/ai_20974808
>
> >If you're "talking about the present, not the past" why are you giving
> >references to 10 year old opinion? Tryhttp://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/
> >for something up to date.
>
> Thanks for the link. I went there and found the unemployment rates.
> Seems to me from their data (at least from these tables) the
> unemployment rate there in 2006 was roughly double that of the US and
> Japan, with the exception of a hand full of countries.

Substantially less than double the USA, just less than double Japan
(USA 4.6%, Japan 4.1%, 27 EU country average 7.9%); but of that order
certainly.

> Some countries were triple that rate.

All these are ex-Soviet-Block countries still struggling to turn
round. They're getting there though as the trends show.

> >> Europe has been opening borders for years. Now they are inundated with
> >> millions of poorly educated and mostly unemployed free-riders from
> >> Turkey, Morocco and the Balkan states.
>
> >"Inundated"? Don't be ridiculous.
>
> When I go back to my hometown of Ghent (up until last January) I see
> more and more "immigrants". Large parts of the city are virtually
> indistinguishable from Istanbul, were it not for the weather.

I'm sure that's true, but parts of some cities being largely populated
by immigrants is a world different from Europe being "inundated", and
is no different from the USA. I don't believe they're "mostly
unemployed free-riders" though.

> >In 2004 approximately 5.5% of the
> >population of EU countries were not citizens of that country; that
> >figure includes people from other EU countries (the Irish living in
> >Britain, the Britons living in Ireland, and so on). Of those, some are
> >likely to be poorly educated, some are likely to be unemployed, and
> >some might even be free-riders; many are hard-working productive
> >people such as doctors and nurses.
>
> >> Some countries (e.g. Germany)
> >> already have take steps to limit, and sometimes send back, these low
> >> skilled "immigrants". Many other countries there are also regretting
> >> the fact that they "opened" up their borders...

K@tia

I am agree with you. There is a lot of talented people talented profesional who need the help of this goverment to contribute with thir very best in pro of this beautiful country. I pray for new laws that allow profesionals, hard working people to contribute to this country.