Joejaq

Coming to the title of this discussion, do subsequent visa refusals
amount to a ban.

There was a rule earlier that if your visa application
is refused twice then u cant apply for two years and that after the
third time you could be banned from entering the US itself (dont know
for sure.)

What are the rules now ? How many times can we now apply for
a visa without fear of any severe action being taken?

What happens if
one is refused visa 4-5 times ?? Does he/she risk being banned from
applying again ?? Is there any time interval now before reapplying,
after a couple of failed attempts?


Originally posted by Ingo
Pakleppa - see web site for email
    > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:14:58
+0000, joejaq wrote:
    >
    >
    > > Hi Ingo,
    > >
    > >
Thanks for ur reply.
    > >
    > > I agree with you that
one shud answer only when asked, but what if they
    > > dont even
ask.
    > >
    > > a b1 visa is given
    > > both to
tourist and business people, so the councellor might not be
    > >
aware about the purpose of my attempts for B1 (or do they know ??)
and
    > > might think that i was desperately trying to get into
US by trying again
    > > and again over a short period of time,
whereas that's not the case, i
    > > applied for B1 only because
my job/employer required me to, i had no
    > > intentions to get
into US by any false means, don't you think i should
    > >
clarify the intentions of my previous attempts to the councellor
and
    > > this would help remove any assumptions that he has in
his mind about my
    > > previous attempts.
    >
    > No, a B-1 is
only for business visitors. Tourists get a B-2. It usually is
    > given as
a combination B-1/B-2 visa. The officer would know from the
    > paperwork
you submitted with the application.
    >
    > > They turned me down on
H1B,
    > > citing that the US firm was a small one (only 290
employees) and that
    > > they needed more info on the US
firm.
    >
    > Usually, it is USCIS' job to evaluate that, but given
the previous
    > denials, the officer probably thought it prudent to re-
verify. Supply the
    > requested information and reapply.
    >
    > > If
i'm able to produce all the
    > > documents they asked for, can
they still turn me down ?? If so on what
    > > grounds can they
do so ??
    >
    > Yes, they can turn you don for any reason they like,
or even no reason at
    > all. Realistically, the only likely reason is
that they aren't satisfied
    > with the documents you provided.
    >
    > >
Does this mean once a person has been refused, he will have to face
all
    > > these hardships un-necessairly ???
    >
    > Yes.
    >
    > This is really frustrating ! They are actually playing with our
careers
    > > here.
    >
    > US immigration law is *designed* to
do that. More specifically, it is
    > designed to prevent non-US citizens
from having a career in the US, unless
    > it benefits the USA.
    >
    > >
Originally posted by Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email
    >> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 05:01:29 +0000, joejaq wrote:
    > >>

    > >>
    > >> Does this mean that councellor's follow
thumb rule and will deny
    > > a
    > >> > visa just coz
one had been denied before ????
    > >>
    > >>
    > Not necessarily. All that means is that the officer doesn't look
at all
    > >
    > >> cases equally. They are dealing with
thousands of applications per
    > > day, so
    > >> they
often don't even glance at a case before approving it.
    > > But
when
    > >> something stands out, they suddenly look carefully.
In your
    > > case, it
    > >> probably was already flagged
as "has been denied previously",
    > > so they
    > >>
simply spent more time looking at it.
    > >>
    > >> > I
will get
    > > all the
    > >> > documents of my US
employer and will be going again
    > > to the counsulate.
    >> >
    > >> > Would u suggest that i
    > > explain my
previous attempts to the councellor,
    > >> > as i still
    > have the original letter of invitation (fax) which i had
    >> >
    > > received from the client, without waiting for the
councellor to ask me
    > >> > the same.
    > >>
    >> No. Respond to questions, don't
    > > volunteer
information.
    > >>
    > >> > I was also thinking about
showing the
    > > visa copy of my
    > >> > collegues who
have been issued visas before
    > > me for the same firm,
would
    > >> > that help.
    > >>
    > >>
Likely,
    > > no.
    >
    > --
    > Remember, I am strictly a
layperson without any legal training. I encourage
    > everybody to seek
competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
    > newsgroups.
    >
Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
    > http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-
faq.shtmlhttp://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
    >
Please visit my new FAQ at
http://www.kkeane.com/http://www.kkeane.com (always under
construction)
    >
    > My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for
spam protection. See
    > my Web site for information on how to contact me.

    >
    > Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site

http://www.ingopakleppa.com/http://www.ingopakleppa.com !
Comments are welcome.

Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email

A ban and a visa refusal have very little to do with each other, except
for the obvious commonality that both result in you not going to the USA.

If your visa application is denied, you can reapply either after six
months to two years (depends on the consulate), or earlier if you have
substantial new information.

You can be banned from the USA for life for filing a fraudulent visa
application. Having been denied three times in and of itself is not
fraudulent, and would not automatically carry a ban.

Generally, the *only* consequence of having too many denials is that your
case will be scrutinized far more carefully. That means that if you have a
strong case and have all your I's dotted and T's crossed, you would be
doing just fine.

That said, usually if you apply again within a few months, chances are
that you would be denied again unless you have very solid evidence that
your case will be OK this time. And the more often you keep applying, the
more likely they won't even look at your case any more but just say "this
guy again" and simply stamp it "denied".

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:07:40 +0000, joejaq wrote:


    > Coming to the title of this discussion, do subsequent visa refusals
    > amount to a ban.
    >
    > There was a rule earlier that if your visa application is refused twice
    > then u cant apply for two years and that after the third time you could
    > be banned from entering the US itself (dont know for sure.)
    >
    > What are the rules now ? How many times can we now apply for a visa
    > without fear of any severe action being taken?
    >
    > What happens if
    > one is refused visa 4-5 times ?? Does he/she risk being banned from
    > applying again ?? Is there any time interval now before reapplying,
    > after a couple of failed attempts?
    >
    >
    > Originally posted by Ingo
    > Pakleppa - see web site for email
    >> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:14:58
    > +0000, joejaq wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> > Hi Ingo,
    >> >
    >> >
    > Thanks for ur reply.
    >> >
    >> > I agree with you that
    > one shud answer only when asked, but what if they
    >> > dont even
    > ask.
    >> >
    >> > a b1 visa is given
    >> > both to
    > tourist and business people, so the councellor might not be
    >> >
    > aware about the purpose of my attempts for B1 (or do they know ??) and
    >> > might think that i was desperately trying to get into
    > US by trying again
    >> > and again over a short period of time,
    > whereas that's not the case, i
    >> > applied for B1 only because
    > my job/employer required me to, i had no
    >> > intentions to get
    > into US by any false means, don't you think i should
    >> >
    > clarify the intentions of my previous attempts to the councellor and
    >> > this would help remove any assumptions that he has in
    > his mind about my
    >> > previous attempts.
    >>
    >> No, a B-1 is
    > only for business visitors. Tourists get a B-2. It usually is
    >> given as
    > a combination B-1/B-2 visa. The officer would know from the
    >> paperwork
    > you submitted with the application.
    >>
    >> > They turned me down on
    > H1B,
    >> > citing that the US firm was a small one (only 290
    > employees) and that
    >> > they needed more info on the US
    > firm.
    >>
    >> Usually, it is USCIS' job to evaluate that, but given
    > the previous
    >> denials, the officer probably thought it prudent to re-
    > verify. Supply the
    >> requested information and reapply.
    >>
    >> > If
    > i'm able to produce all the
    >> > documents they asked for, can
    > they still turn me down ?? If so on what
    >> > grounds can they
    > do so ??
    >>
    >> Yes, they can turn you don for any reason they like,
    > or even no reason at
    >> all. Realistically, the only likely reason is
    > that they aren't satisfied
    >> with the documents you provided.
    >>
    >>
    > Does this mean once a person has been refused, he will have to face all
    >> > these hardships un-necessairly ???
    >>
    >> Yes.
    >>
    >>
    >> This is really frustrating ! They are actually playing with our
    > careers
    >> > here.
    >>
    >> US immigration law is *designed* to
    > do that. More specifically, it is
    >> designed to prevent non-US citizens
    > from having a career in the US, unless
    >> it benefits the USA.
    >>
    >>
    > Originally posted by Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email
    >>> On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 05:01:29 +0000, joejaq wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >
    >> >> Does this mean that councellor's follow
    > thumb rule and will deny
    >> > a
    >> >> > visa just coz
    > one had been denied before ????
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> Not necessarily. All that means is that the officer doesn't look
    > at all
    >> >
    >> >> cases equally. They are dealing with
    > thousands of applications per
    >> > day, so
    >> >> they
    > often don't even glance at a case before approving it.
    >> > But
    > when
    >> >> something stands out, they suddenly look carefully.
    > In your
    >> > case, it
    >> >> probably was already flagged
    > as "has been denied previously",
    >> > so they
    >> >>
    > simply spent more time looking at it.
    >> >>
    >> >> > I
    > will get
    >> > all the
    >> >> > documents of my US
    > employer and will be going again
    >> > to the counsulate.
    >> >> > Would u suggest that i
    >> > explain my
    > previous attempts to the councellor,
    >> >> > as i still
    >> have the original letter of invitation (fax) which i had
    >> > received from the client, without waiting for the
    > councellor to ask me
    >> >> > the same.
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >>> No. Respond to questions, don't
    >> > volunteer
    > information.
    >> >>
    >> >> > I was also thinking about
    > showing the
    >> > visa copy of my
    >> >> > collegues who
    > have been issued visas before
    >> > me for the same firm,
    > would
    >> >> > that help.
    >> >>
    >> >>
    > Likely,
    >> > no.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Remember, I am strictly a
    > layperson without any legal training. I encourage
    >> everybody to seek
    > competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
    >> newsgroups.
    >>
    >>
    > Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
    >> http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-
    > faq.shtmlhttp://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml
    >>
    >>
    > Please visit my new FAQ at
    > http://www.kkeane.com/http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)
    >>
    >> My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for
    > spam protection. See
    >> my Web site for information on how to contact me.
    >
    >
    >> Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
    >
    > http://www.ingopakleppa.com/http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are
    > welcome.

Joejaq

    > Hello all,
    > Let me share my experience with you. Hope it wud be of some help.
    > I had applied twice for a B1 visa but was turned down both times
    > against section 214.
    > After a year i got a job offer and applied for an H1B visa with an
    > approved petition but again i was turned down under section 221g.
    > Now i had 3 application received stamps on my passport.
    > This i believe was happening because of the previous two b1 refusals
    > and thought i wud never be able to get the visa but finally after
    > showing all the documents they had asked for like company tax returns,
    > photos etc. i was granted the visa.
    > Praise the lord.
    > Thanks,
    > joe

Hi Ingo/All,

Thanks a lot for all your replies and suggestions, they were extremely
helpful in my case.

Finally i had got my visa by the grace of god, but i wasn't called and
since have left my employers while still in my home country.

I wanted to know, what if a new employer was ready to hire me can he get
my visa transfered under the new company's name, please note that i
haven't travelled to US ever, although i posses a valid H1B, what
possibilities exist under such circumstances ???

Please do reply.

Thanks in Advance,
Joe

Ingo Pakleppa

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

joejaq wrote:

    >
    >> Hello all,
    >> Let me share my experience with you. Hope it wud be of some help.
    >> I had applied twice for a B1 visa but was turned down both times
    >> against section 214.
    >> After a year i got a job offer and applied for an H1B visa with an
    >> approved petition but again i was turned down under section 221g.
    >> Now i had 3 application received stamps on my passport.
    >> This i believe was happening because of the previous two b1 refusals
    >> and thought i wud never be able to get the visa but finally after
    >> showing all the documents they had asked for like company tax returns,
    >> photos etc. i was granted the visa.
    >> Praise the lord.
    >> Thanks,
    >> joe
    >
    > Hi Ingo/All,
    >
    > Thanks a lot for all your replies and suggestions, they were extremely
    > helpful in my case.
    >
    > Finally i had got my visa by the grace of god, but i wasn't called and
    > since have left my employers while still in my home country.
    >
    > I wanted to know, what if a new employer was ready to hire me can he get
    > my visa transfered under the new company's name, please note that i
    > haven't travelled to US ever, although i posses a valid H1B, what
    > possibilities exist under such circumstances ???

A new employer would have to apply for a new H-1B petition for you. Since
the 2005/2006 quota has been exhausted, the earliest that would be possible
is October 1, 2006 (unless you are in one of the special categories where
H-1Bs are still available). Your old H-1B will not help you in that
respect.

But once you have the new petition from the new employer, you can then
travel to the US using the old visa (assuming it hasn't expired by then, of
course!) without returning to the consulate.

- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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Joejaq

    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    > joejaq wrote:
    > >
    > >> Hello all,
    > >> Let me share my experience with you. Hope it wud be of some help.
    > >> I had applied twice for a B1 visa but was turned down both times
    > >> against section 214.
    > >> After a year i got a job offer and applied for an H1B visa with an
    > >> approved petition but again i was turned down under section 221g.
    > >> Now i had 3 application received stamps on my passport.
    > >> This i believe was happening because of the previous two b1
    > >> refusals
    > >> and thought i wud never be able to get the visa but finally after
    > >> showing all the documents they had asked for like company tax
    > >> returns,
    > >> photos etc. i was granted the visa.
    > >> Praise the lord.
    > >> Thanks,
    > >> joe
    > >
    > > Hi Ingo/All,
    > >
    > > Thanks a lot for all your replies and suggestions, they were
    > > extremely
    > > helpful in my case.
    > >
    > > Finally i had got my visa by the grace of god, but i wasn't called
    > > and
    > > since have left my employers while still in my home country.
    > >
    > > I wanted to know, what if a new employer was ready to hire me can he
    > > get
    > > my visa transfered under the new company's name, please note that i
    > > haven't travelled to US ever, although i posses a valid H1B, what
    > > possibilities exist under such circumstances ???
    > A new employer would have to apply for a new H-1B petition for you.
    > Since
    > the 2005/2006 quota has been exhausted, the earliest that would be
    > possible
    > is October 1, 2006 (unless you are in one of the special categories
    > where
    > H-1Bs are still available). Your old H-1B will not help you in that
    > respect.
    > But once you have the new petition from the new employer, you can then
    > travel to the US using the old visa (assuming it hasn't expired by
    > then, of
    > course!) without returning to the consulate.
    > - --
    > Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I
    > encourage
    > everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on
    > usenet
    > newsgroups.
    > Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under
    > construction)
    > My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection.
    > See
    > my Web site for information on how to contact me.
    > Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
    > http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    > Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
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Thanks for your reply Ingo, but cant understand why another employer
would have to file for a new petition, my visa is valid for another
year (though its issued against the name of my old employer), can't a
new employer just transfer the visa to his company, by filing for an
H1B transfer.

If he goes in for a new petition wont that require a new stamping
altogether ?

Please advice.

Thanks in advance,
-Joe

Ingo Pakleppa

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

joejaq wrote:

    >
    > Thanks for your reply Ingo, but cant understand why another employer
    > would have to file for a new petition, my visa is valid for another
    > year (though its issued against the name of my old employer), can't a
    > new employer just transfer the visa to his company, by filing for an
    > H1B transfer.

First of all, it is important for you to understand the difference between
visa, status and petition. I'd like to invite you to my FAQ site at
http://www.kkeane.com where I explain these things in more detail.

The *visa* remains valid. But an H-1B visa is absolutely worthless without a
petition from the employer you are actually planning to work for.

Basically, an H-1B transfer is simply an application for a new petition.
And, by the way, the paperwork for a transfer is virtually identical to the
paperwork for the initial H-1B - the only real difference is that the
employer checks a different checkbox, and that a transfer is usually not
subject to the quota.

That last point is critical for you; you actually don't qualify for a
transfer because in order to be eligible, you would have had to work for
the original employer.

    > If he goes in for a new petition wont that require a new stamping
    > altogether ?

No. The visa is valid with *any* H-1B petition.

- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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joejaq

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> joejaq wrote:
>
> >
> > Thanks for your reply Ingo, but cant understand why another employer
> > would have to file for a new petition, my visa is valid for another
> > year (though its issued against the name of my old employer), can't
> > a
> > new employer just transfer the visa to his company, by filing for an
> > H1B transfer.
>
> First of all, it is important for you to understand the difference
> between
> visa, status and petition. I'd like to invite you to my FAQ site at
> http://www.kkeane.com where I explain these things in more detail.
>
> The *visa* remains valid. But an H-1B visa is absolutely worthless
> without a
> petition from the employer you are actually planning to work for.
>
> Basically, an H-1B transfer is simply an application for a new
> petition.
> And, by the way, the paperwork for a transfer is virtually identical
> to the
> paperwork for the initial H-1B - the only real difference is that the
> employer checks a different checkbox, and that a transfer is usually
> not
> subject to the quota.
>
> That last point is critical for you; you actually don't qualify for a
> transfer because in order to be eligible, you would have had to work
> for
> the original employer.
>
> > If he goes in for a new petition wont that require a new stamping
> > altogether ?
>
> No. The visa is valid with *any* H-1B petition.
>
> - --
> Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I
> encourage
> everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on
> usenet
> newsgroups.
>
> Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under
> construction)
>
> My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection.
> See
> my Web site for information on how to contact me.
>
> Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
> http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFDFFTcyUlVTFdHXskRAiU4AJ9MX5DDkFofQBPRHniaaI vpoTYEYACfXRbL
> RuXoTwTIrWVHRk6QcgIjP/8=
> =kwyu
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Hi Ingo,

So you mean that the new employer can file for a fresh petition and i
can travel on my old visa ?

Is is possible now keeping in mind that the H1B cap has been filled for
this year ?

I know a petition can't be filed for new stamping but since i already
have the visa, and only the petition is required, can i ask the new
employer to go for premium processing in this year itself ??


Thanks,
Joe

Ingo Pakleppa (see Web site for email)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

joejaq wrote:

> Hi Ingo,
>
> So you mean that the new employer can file for a fresh petition and i
> can travel on my old visa ?

Correct. For travel, you will actually also need the new petition.

> Is is possible now keeping in mind that the H1B cap has been filled for
> this year ?

Offhand, I don't recall if you have ever worked for the first employer. If
not, you would indeed be counted as a new H-1B, and be subject to the
quota.

> I know a petition can't be filed for new stamping but since i already
> have the visa, and only the petition is required, can i ask the new
> employer to go for premium processing in this year itself ??

No. It is actually the petition, not the visa stamp, that is subject to the
quota.

- --
Please visit my FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com before asking a question here.
It may answer your question. Remember, I am strictly a layperson without
any legal training. I encourage the reader to seek competent legal counsel
rather than relying on usenet newsgroups.
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joejaq

> Hello all,
>
> Let me share my experience with you. Hope it wud be of some help.
>
> I had applied twice for a B1 visa but was turned down both times
> against section 214.
>
> After a year i got a job offer and applied for an H1B visa with an
> approved petition but again i was turned down under section 221g.
>
> Now i had 3 application received stamps on my passport.
>
> This i believe was happening because of the previous two b1 refusals
> and thought i wud never be able to get the visa but finally after
> showing all the documents they had asked for like company tax returns,
> photos etc. i was granted the visa.
>
> Praise the lord.
>
> Thanks,
> joe

Hi Ingo/All,

Thanks a lot for all your replies and suggestions, they were extremely
helpful in my case.

Finally i had got my visa by the grace of god, but i wasn't called and
since have left my employers while still in my home country.

I wanted to know, what if a new employer was ready to hire me can he get
my visa transfered under the new company's name, please note that i
haven't travelled to US ever, although i posses a valid H1B, what
possibilities exist under such circumstances ???

Please do reply.

Thanks in Advance,
Joe

Ingo Pakleppa (see Web site for email)

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joejaq wrote:

>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Let me share my experience with you. Hope it wud be of some help.
>>
>> I had applied twice for a B1 visa but was turned down both times
>> against section 214.
>>
>> After a year i got a job offer and applied for an H1B visa with an
>> approved petition but again i was turned down under section 221g.
>>
>> Now i had 3 application received stamps on my passport.
>>
>> This i believe was happening because of the previous two b1 refusals
>> and thought i wud never be able to get the visa but finally after
>> showing all the documents they had asked for like company tax returns,
>> photos etc. i was granted the visa.
>>
>> Praise the lord.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> joe
>
> Hi Ingo/All,
>
> Thanks a lot for all your replies and suggestions, they were extremely
> helpful in my case.
>
> Finally i had got my visa by the grace of god, but i wasn't called and
> since have left my employers while still in my home country.
>
> I wanted to know, what if a new employer was ready to hire me can he get
> my visa transfered under the new company's name, please note that i
> haven't travelled to US ever, although i posses a valid H1B, what
> possibilities exist under such circumstances ???

A new employer would have to apply for a new H-1B petition for you. Since
the 2005/2006 quota has been exhausted, the earliest that would be possible
is October 1, 2006 (unless you are in one of the special categories where
H-1Bs are still available). Your old H-1B will not help you in that
respect.

But once you have the new petition from the new employer, you can then
travel to the US using the old visa (assuming it hasn't expired by then, of
course!) without returning to the consulate.

- --
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.
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