Azam

Does a Canadian citizen working abroad needs to pay Taxes on his income?

Thanks in advance.
Azam

Andrew Miller

It depends from many factors. As long as such Canadian citizen is not a
non-resident for tax purposes s/he will have to file tax return in Canada.
Check CCRA website for more details and to see how residency status for tax
purposes is determined, what are the residential ties that will make you
resident for tax purposes etc. here:

http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca/E/pub/tp/...onsolid-e.html

and here:

http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca/tax/nonre.../nonres-e.html

and in all other places you find links to on CCRA site. It is not that easy
to be declared a non-resident for tax purposes if you have any ties in
Canada.

Singh

I beg to DIFFER on this one with Andrew. If you stay less than 183 days a
year in Canada, you are a automatic non-resident for tax purposes. Revenue
Canada can look at your ties beyond that also, but the burden lies on them
to prove how they see you connected to Canada for tax purposes, and it is
very hard for them to prove this for an average person. If you have a
wealthy estate in canada, canadian income more then foreign, immideate
dependent family in canada, then you may be a resident for tax purposes, per
statistics only 3% of non-physical residents pay taxes in canada.
www.statscan.ca




"Azam" <> wrote in message
news:XaIMb.157362$...
Does a Canadian citizen working abroad needs to pay Taxes on his income?

Thanks in advance.
Azam

Andrew Miller

What exactly do you differ with? With my comment that a Canadian citizen who
is not a non-resident for tax purposes must file tax return in Canada if
s/he has taxable income?

I didn't state that above applies to person deemed a non-resident for tax
purposes, so what you differ with?

The rest of my comment were links to relevant CCRA pages dealing with the
matter - you differ with those links as well?

Being simply less than 183 days in Canada in a tax year will not make
Canadian citizen automatically a non-resident for tax purposes - if you read
CCRA explanations it may be more clear to you. It will be hard to claim
being a non-resident (with some exceptions) for tax purposes when temporary
living/working outside Canada (even when being in Canada for less than 183
days in tax year) if person retained residential ties to Canada - for
example home, spouse, dependants, personal property (car, furniture), social
ties in Canada or even such simple things like keeping Canadian bank
accounts or credit cards, driver's license or Provincial health insurance.
And pointing out that there is a difference between non-resident status
versus resident for tax purposes was what my intention was. And this is why
my very first sentence started with "It depends..."

Please read info on mentioned CCRA pages before you provide opinion on such
serious matter. I don't even pretend to be a tax expert and this is why I
pointed original poster to CCRA pages.

S B

Singh wrote:
    >
    > I beg to DIFFER on this one with Andrew. If you stay less than 183 days a
    > year in Canada, you are a automatic non-resident for tax purposes. Revenue
    > Canada can look at your ties beyond that also, but the burden lies on them
    > to prove how they see you connected to Canada for tax purposes, and it is
    > very hard for them to prove this for an average person. If you have a
    > wealthy estate in canada, canadian income more then foreign, immideate
    > dependent family in canada, then you may be a resident for tax purposes, per
    > statistics only 3% of non-physical residents pay taxes in canada.
    > www.statscan.ca
    >
    > "Azam" <> wrote in message
    > news:XaIMb.157362$...
    > Does a Canadian citizen working abroad needs to pay Taxes on his income?
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    > Azam

Wrong. You've misinterpreted the application of the 183 day rule.

That rule applies to foreign residents who work / live temporarily in
Canada. If say a worker (citizenship doesn't matter) comes to Canada
and gets paid for say 180 days, he will not be considered a Canadian tax
resident and have to pay Canadian resident taxes on his income unless he
establishes a residence within Canada during his stay. Alexei Yashin
attempted to do this, since although based with a Canadian team, he
spent less than 183 days in Canada (since so many games are in the US).
BUT he had purchased a home in Canada, which his mother lived in and
looked after for him. This was considered a factual residence in Canada
and he had to pay Canadian taxes.

The 183 day rule does NOT apply to Canadian residents who are leaving
Canada either temporarily or permanently unless they return to work in
Canada while maintaining a residence abroad.

As a Canadian citizen who works OUTSIDE Canada, who has previously lived
and worked in Canada, to not have to pay taxes to Canada on the foreign
income, he must have eliminated all factual residential ties to Canada.

Singhpro

Andrew,



having read those CRPA pages, I dont understand how you can say in your
orignal post "It is not that easy to be declared a non-resident for tax
purposes if you have any ties in Canada."



What makes it difficult when only 3% of the physically non-residents pay
taxes in Canada. There is no way a person having a Canadian Dreivers
Licence or Credit Card can be considered a resident, because people DONT
cancel their licences etc when they move for a few years.



Taxation is an issue, which has some grey areas but not to the point
when a Drivers Licence etc prove your residency. Canada is known in G-7
and world over for its simple assessment of taxation on "physical
residency".



Singh







Originally posted by Andrew Miller

    > What exactly do you differ with? With my comment that a Canadian
    > citizen who

    > is not a non-resident for tax purposes must file tax return in
    > Canada if

    > s/he has taxable income?


    > I didn't state that above applies to person deemed a non-
    > resident for tax

    > purposes, so what you differ with?


    > The rest of my comment were links to relevant CCRA pages dealing
    > with the

    > matter - you differ with those links as well?


    > Being simply less than 183 days in Canada in a tax year will not make

    > Canadian citizen automatically a non-resident for tax purposes - if
    > you read

    > CCRA explanations it may be more clear to you. It will be hard
    > to claim

    > being a non-resident (with some exceptions) for tax purposes when
    > temporary

    > living/working outside Canada (even when being in Canada for less
    > than 183

    > days in tax year) if person retained residential ties to Canada - for

    > example home, spouse, dependants, personal property (car,
    > furniture), social

    > ties in Canada or even such simple things like keeping Canadian bank

    > accounts or credit cards, driver's license or Provincial health
    > insurance.

    > And pointing out that there is a difference between non-
    > resident status

    > versus resident for tax purposes was what my intention was. And
    > this is why

    > my very first sentence started with "It depends..."


    > Please read info on mentioned CCRA pages before you provide
    > opinion on such

    > serious matter. I don't even pretend to be a tax expert and this
    > is why I

    > pointed original poster to CCRA pages.


    > --


    > ../..


    > Andrew Miller

    > Immigration Consultant

    > Vancouver, British Columbia

    > email:

    > (delete REMOVE from the above address before sending email)

    > ________________________________



    > "Singh" <> wrote in message

    > news:xTIMb.50408$"]news:xTIMb.50408$WS-
    > [/url]...

    > > I beg to DIFFER on this one with Andrew. If you stay less than
    > 183 days a

    > > year in Canada, you are a automatic non-resident for tax
    > purposes.

    > Revenue

    > > Canada can look at your ties beyond that also, but the burden
    > lies on them

    > > to prove how they see you connected to Canada for tax purposes,
    > and it is

    > > very hard for them to prove this for an average person. If you
    > have a

    > > wealthy estate in canada, canadian income more then foreign,
    > immideate

    > > dependent family in canada, then you may be a resident for tax
    > purposes,

    > per

    > > statistics only 3% of non-physical residents pay taxes in
    > canada.

    > > www.statscan.ca

    > > "Azam" <> wrote in message

    > > news:XaIMb.157362$"]news:XaI-
    > Mb.157362$[/url]...

    > > Does a Canadian citizen working abroad needs to pay Taxes on his
    > income?

    > > Thanks in advance.

    > Azam

Andrew Miller

Contact CCRA or tax expert and you'll see that your assumptions are purely
wrong. And read Stuart's reply posted just few minutes ago.

S B

SinghPro wrote:
    >
    > Andrew,
    >
    > having read those CRPA pages, I dont understand how you can say in your
    > orignal post "It is not that easy to be declared a non-resident for tax
    > purposes if you have any ties in Canada."
    >
    > What makes it difficult when only 3% of the physically non-residents pay
    > taxes in Canada. There is no way a person having a Canadian Dreivers
    > Licence or Credit Card can be considered a resident, because people DONT
    > cancel their licences etc when they move for a few years.
    >
    > Taxation is an issue, which has some grey areas but not to the point
    > when a Drivers Licence etc prove your residency. Canada is known in G-7
    > and world over for its simple assessment of taxation on "physical
    > residency".
    >
    > Singh

Wrong again Singh. Taxation in Canada is based on *factual* residence,
not physical residence. Factual residence means things which would
conclude one to believe that you have not abandoned Canada as your home
for a significant or indeterminate period. While maintaining a Canadian
drivers license alone is not necessarily a sign of residence, it can be
when, for example, the laws of other places require you to forfeit your
CDN license when taking a license in their place, such as most states in
the US.

Similarly having a Canadian credit card does not make you a factual
resident, unless you are using it frequently which makes one believe
that you have not established residence elsewhere.

There are many such factual ties to Canada. Some are major, like owning
a home you could return to at short order (if you lease it for more than
a year, you are probably OK), or for example, if any of your immediate
family, dependent on you, are remaining in Canada.

To use the 183 day rule, you must have established tax residence abroad
and relinquished factual residence in Canada. International courts have
upheld that everyone is a tax resident somewhere. Therefore, if you go
somewhere to work temporarily that refuses to consider you a tax
resident (many middle east countries are like that for example), you
will retain your Canadian tax residence whether or not you have
relinquished sufficient ties to Canada.

Go read the CCRA documents and then learn the other intricacies of
international tax treaties etc. When you've done that, come back and
tell us it's a simple 183 days then. Somehow, I don't think you will.

Singhpro

S B,



What is your point in the last posting ?

You are confirming what I had just said.



I had initially responded to this thread because Andrew seemed to say
its "not easy" to declare yourself a non-resident for tax purposes.



Both of you are doing a good job at what you are sayng, but I dont hear
about facts, I rather hear a lot of opinion. How would you explain to
everyone why only 3% of physically non-residents people are subject to
canadian taxes ??



We all know is not a very clearly defined process of factual residence
in Canada. But I also think that is 97% of people dont pay taxes when
they dont live in Canada, its VERY wrong to call it a hard process.



The orignal post of the thread lives and work abroad, Did he say he had
his spouse, a home, etc etc in Canada ??? Majority of people dont have
those ties when they live abroad, most certainly very few do.



Something being difficult if a RELATIVE thing, I strongly think that if
97% can do , it is relatively straight forward.



Its better to talk in facts than in thin-air opinions....















Originally posted by S B

    > SinghPro wrote:

    > >

    > > Andrew,

    > >

    > > having read those CRPA pages, I dont understand how you can say
    > in your

    > > orignal post "It is not that easy to be declared a non-resident
    > for tax

    > > purposes if you have any ties in Canada."

    > >

    > > What makes it difficult when only 3% of the physically non-
    > residents pay

    > > taxes in Canada. There is no way a person having a Canadian
    > Dreivers

    > > Licence or Credit Card can be considered a resident, because
    > people DONT

    > > cancel their licences etc when they move for a few years.

    > >

    > > Taxation is an issue, which has some grey areas but not to the
    > point

    > > when a Drivers Licence etc prove your residency. Canada is known
    > in G-7

    > > and world over for its simple assessment of taxation on
    > "physical

    > > residency".

    > >

    > > Singh


    > Wrong again Singh. Taxation in Canada is based on *factual*
    > residence,

    > not physical residence. Factual residence means things which would

    > conclude one to believe that you have not abandoned Canada as
    > your home

    > for a significant or indeterminate period. While maintaining a
    > Canadian

    > drivers license alone is not necessarily a sign of residence,
    > it can be

    > when, for example, the laws of other places require you to
    > forfeit your

    > CDN license when taking a license in their place, such as most
    > states in

    > the US.


    > Similarly having a Canadian credit card does not make you a factual

    > resident, unless you are using it frequently which makes one believe

    > that you have not established residence elsewhere.


    > There are many such factual ties to Canada. Some are major,
    > like owning

    > a home you could return to at short order (if you lease it for
    > more than

    > a year, you are probably OK), or for example, if any of your immediate

    > family, dependent on you, are remaining in Canada.


    > To use the 183 day rule, you must have established tax
    > residence abroad

    > and relinquished factual residence in Canada. International
    > courts have

    > upheld that everyone is a tax resident somewhere. Therefore,
    > if you go

    > somewhere to work temporarily that refuses to consider you a tax

    > resident (many middle east countries are like that for example), you

    > will retain your Canadian tax residence whether or not you have

    > relinquished sufficient ties to Canada.


    > Go read the CCRA documents and then learn the other intricacies of

    > international tax treaties etc. When you've done that, come back and

tell us it's a simple 183 days then. Somehow, I don't think you
will.

S B

SinghPro wrote:
    >
    > S B,
    >
    > What is your point in the last posting ?

The point of my last posting was that what you wrote was incorrect.
That Canadian tax residence is based on "Facts of Residence", not
"Physical Residence" which is normally taken to be physical presence
like the requirements for citizenship and for retaining PR.

    > You are confirming what I had just said.

No, I am NOT confirming what you had said. I'm saying you have been
wrong twice in significant ways.

    > I had initially responded to this thread because Andrew seemed to say
    > its "not easy" to declare yourself a non-resident for tax purposes.

Andrew is correct. There are any number of things that CCRA can use to
decide that you are a Factual Resident, or a Deemed Factual Resident.

    > Both of you are doing a good job at what you are sayng, but I dont hear
    > about facts, I rather hear a lot of opinion. How would you explain to
    > everyone why only 3% of physically non-residents people are subject to
    > canadian taxes ??

Actually, you ARE hearing facts which can be corroborated by visiting
the CCRA web site. Consider too that the determination for factual
residence or deemed factual resident is not a simple "yes/no"
determination based on individual facts, but rather a objective
determination based on a number of facts.

    > We all know is not a very clearly defined process of factual residence
    > in Canada. But I also think that is 97% of people dont pay taxes when
    > they dont live in Canada, its VERY wrong to call it a hard process.

You *think* that it is 97% of people don't pay taxes. Considering you
can't even apply the 183 day rule correctly, and you accuse us of not
providing facts!

    > The orignal post of the thread lives and work abroad, Did he say he had
    > his spouse, a home, etc etc in Canada ??? Majority of people dont have
    > those ties when they live abroad, most certainly very few do.

Actually, many people do ... but when they learn how to effectively
sever ties while keeping a home in Canada etc. it makes sense.

    > Something being difficult if a RELATIVE thing, I strongly think that if
    > 97% can do , it is relatively straight forward.

It *can* be relatively straight forward ... but that's usually not the
case ... for example, many people move from Canada to work, leaving the
spouse and kids behind for a couple months to complete the school year.
Do you realize how much complication that adds?

    > Its better to talk in facts than in thin-air opinions....

You're the one quoting incorrect facts and thin air opinions.