Steve Austin

Starting tomorrow with "The Day After Tomorrow" and the impact it will
have, count on cities in Europe, the U.S., and around the world to become
car-free and car-free cities to built worldwide. Cars will disappear, people
will stop driving, and bicycles, mass transit, and walking will take over as
the major forms of transportation. The suburbs will begin to disappear as
people return to cities and urban areas out of concern for the environment
and the planet's climate.

Other environmental stuff will happen, too. Farms, open space, ranches,
and natural stuff will reclaim land which rightfully belong to it. Roads
will be torn up. Voluntary simplicity will take over as the new lifestyle.

Keith Willshaw

"Steve Austin" <> wrote in message
news:_lxtc.237$...
    > Starting tomorrow with "The Day After Tomorrow" and the impact it
will
    > have, count on cities in Europe, the U.S., and around the world to become
    > car-free and car-free cities to built worldwide. Cars will disappear,
people
    > will stop driving, and bicycles, mass transit, and walking will take over
as
    > the major forms of transportation. The suburbs will begin to disappear as
    > people return to cities and urban areas out of concern for the environment
    > and the planet's climate.

Hey birdbrain.

The suburbs existed BEFORE anyone invented the motor car

Keith




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George Conklin

"Steve Austin" <> wrote in message
news:_lxtc.237$...
    > Starting tomorrow with "The Day After Tomorrow" and the impact it
will
    > have, count on cities in Europe, the U.S., and around the world to become
    > car-free and car-free cities to built worldwide. Cars will disappear,
people
    > will stop driving, and bicycles, mass transit, and walking will take over
as
    > the major forms of transportation. The suburbs will begin to disappear as
    > people return to cities and urban areas out of concern for the environment
    > and the planet's climate.
    > Other environmental stuff will happen, too. Farms, open space,
ranches,
    > and natural stuff will reclaim land which rightfully belong to it. Roads
    > will be torn up. Voluntary simplicity will take over as the new lifestyle.

Farmers were sprawled. Urbanites are concentrating populations in
smaller and smaller areas. By 2025 at least half of all population even in
Africa will be urbanized. Going back to the social patterns of 1820 will
not reduce energy use---it would INCREASE it.

George Conklin

"Keith Willshaw" <> wrote in message
news:40b6f776$1_1@127.0.0.1...
    > "Steve Austin" <> wrote in message
    > news:_lxtc.237$...
    > > Starting tomorrow with "The Day After Tomorrow" and the impact it
    > will
    > > have, count on cities in Europe, the U.S., and around the world to
become
    > > car-free and car-free cities to built worldwide. Cars will disappear,
    > people
    > > will stop driving, and bicycles, mass transit, and walking will take
over
    > as
    > > the major forms of transportation. The suburbs will begin to disappear
as
    > > people return to cities and urban areas out of concern for the
environment
    > > and the planet's climate.
    > >
    > Hey birdbrain.
    > The suburbs existed BEFORE anyone invented the motor car
    > Keith

The rural existed before cities too, and rural population patterns showed
that the population then was sprawled all over the land. With urbanization
population concentration started. Actually the movie is a rant against
travel of any kind.

Louis XIV

Yeah right Steve. And the band played 'Believe it if you like'. Was it the
Bionic implants that softened your brain? Your day after tomorrow sounds
more like the day before yesterday, and what does this really have to do
with travel anyway?

"Steve Austin" <> wrote in message
news:_lxtc.237$...
    > Starting tomorrow with "The Day After Tomorrow" and the impact it
will
    > have, count on cities in Europe, the U.S., and around the world to become
    > car-free and car-free cities to built worldwide. Cars will disappear,
people
    > will stop driving, and bicycles, mass transit, and walking will take over
as
    > the major forms of transportation. The suburbs will begin to disappear as
    > people return to cities and urban areas out of concern for the environment
    > and the planet's climate.
    > Other environmental stuff will happen, too. Farms, open space,
ranches,
    > and natural stuff will reclaim land which rightfully belong to it. Roads
    > will be torn up. Voluntary simplicity will take over as the new lifestyle.

Keith Willshaw

"George Conklin" <> wrote in message
news:I2Etc.28469$...

    > The rural existed before cities too, and rural population patterns
showed
    > that the population then was sprawled all over the land. With
urbanization
    > population concentration started. Actually the movie is a rant against
    > travel of any kind.

True but before transport consisted of more than walking
and horse drawn vehicles cities by nature were congested
unhealthy places. Ancient Rome had a population
of over a million crammed into multi-storey tenements
with communal lavatories and water available down
in the street. Traffic was notoriously so bad that
delivery vehicles were only allowed inside the
city limits overnight.

London and New York were much the same by the
early 19th century. The epidemics of cholera,
typhoid and typhus that swept the cities are a matter
of record.

It was the invention of the railways that brought the
suburbs. Indeed the railway companies played a
major part in developing the communities that
became todays suburbs. In doing so they allowed
people to move out of the unhealthy rookeries
of central London to suburban dwellings with
gardens and hygienic sanitation and clean water.

Keith




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George Conklin

"Keith Willshaw" <> wrote in message
news:40b72f1c$1_1@127.0.0.1...
    > "George Conklin" <> wrote in message
    > news:I2Etc.28469$...
    > >
    > >
    > > The rural existed before cities too, and rural population patterns
    > showed
    > > that the population then was sprawled all over the land. With
    > urbanization
    > > population concentration started. Actually the movie is a rant against
    > > travel of any kind.
    > >
    > >
    > True but before transport consisted of more than walking
    > and horse drawn vehicles cities by nature were congested
    > unhealthy places. Ancient Rome had a population
    > of over a million crammed into multi-storey tenements
    > with communal lavatories and water available down
    > in the street. Traffic was notoriously so bad that
    > delivery vehicles were only allowed inside the
    > city limits overnight.

You have fallen prey to one of the silly claims of modern urban
militants: ancient cities were large. They in fact were quite small.
Ancient Athens had a population of about 50,000, and at best Rome had
250,000, and some say half that. Cities consumed more people than they
produced until 1860, so high was the death rate due to disease.


    > London and New York were much the same by the
    > early 19th century. The epidemics of cholera,
    > typhoid and typhus that swept the cities are a matter
    > of record.

Most students today have never heard of cholera. It was a really bad
player. Do you know of the Broad Street Pump?

    > It was the invention of the railways that brought the
    > suburbs. Indeed the railway companies played a
    > major part in developing the communities that
    > became todays suburbs. In doing so they allowed
    > people to move out of the unhealthy rookeries
    > of central London to suburban dwellings with
    > gardens and hygienic sanitation and clean water.
    > Keith
Cities which developed after the invention of the railroad are quite
different from those whose job was to service sailing ships and ports.
Cities were also located in different places for different reasons.

Keith Willshaw

"George Conklin" <> wrote in message
news:kGGtc.2465$...
    > "Keith Willshaw" <> wrote in message
    > news:40b72f1c$1_1@127.0.0.1...
    > >
    > > "George Conklin" <> wrote in message
    > > news:I2Etc.28469$...
    > > >
    > >
    > > >
    > > > The rural existed before cities too, and rural population patterns
    > > showed
    > > > that the population then was sprawled all over the land. With
    > > urbanization
    > > > population concentration started. Actually the movie is a rant
against
    > > > travel of any kind.
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > True but before transport consisted of more than walking
    > > and horse drawn vehicles cities by nature were congested
    > > unhealthy places. Ancient Rome had a population
    > > of over a million crammed into multi-storey tenements
    > > with communal lavatories and water available down
    > > in the street. Traffic was notoriously so bad that
    > > delivery vehicles were only allowed inside the
    > > city limits overnight.
    > >
    > You have fallen prey to one of the silly claims of modern urban
    > militants: ancient cities were large. They in fact were quite small.
    > Ancient Athens had a population of about 50,000, and at best Rome had
    > 250,000, and some say half that.

Incorrect, the census of AD 70 placed it at 900,000. Later figures
based on the survey carried out by Diocletian use assessments
of the quantities of food and water carried into Rome place
it at nearer 1.5 million. This was quite accurately known as each
citizen was entitiled to a dole of corn from the State.

So great did these imports become that the port of Ostia was
built specially to allow large ships to tranship their cargoes onto
barges that could carry it into Rome.

Records show that the number of insula (apartment buildings)
peaked at 46,602 while there were less than 2000 family houses (domi)

We know from contemporary records and the handful of
surviving insulae that the a typical building had founddation of
around 4000 sq ft and was 6 stories high. The ground floor
was usually taken up by shops , there was a lavatory on each
floor and water fountain in the central courtyard. They
resembled the tenements of 19th century Paris (or Glasgow)

Assuming that each insula had 10 people resident we would
have a population of 500,000. In reality it would 2-3 times that

see
http://www.tulane.edu/~august/H303/h...Population.htm

Keith

    > Cities consumed more people than they
    > produced until 1860, so high was the death rate due to disease.

The Romans managed to largely avoid this in the same manner
the Victorians did, they pipe in fresh water via the aqueducts
and take away the waste in sewerage system (The Cloaca Maxima)


    > > London and New York were much the same by the
    > > early 19th century. The epidemics of cholera,
    > > typhoid and typhus that swept the cities are a matter
    > > of record.
    > >
    > Most students today have never heard of cholera. It was a really bad
    > player. Do you know of the Broad Street Pump?

Indeed I do, Sir Joseph Bazalgette should be the hero of
every Londoner, he undoubtedly made the biggest
contribution to the health of that city than all the
doctors of the 19th century.

I recall a distinguished medical officer of health
giving a lecture in which he opined that the
3 greatest advances in public health care
were Fresh water, cheap linen and the brass bedstead.

Keith
    > > It was the invention of the railways that brought the
    > > suburbs. Indeed the railway companies played a
    > > major part in developing the communities that
    > > became todays suburbs. In doing so they allowed
    > > people to move out of the unhealthy rookeries
    > > of central London to suburban dwellings with
    > > gardens and hygienic sanitation and clean water.
    > >
    > > Keith
    > >
    > >
    > Cities which developed after the invention of the railroad are quite
    > different from those whose job was to service sailing ships and ports.
    > Cities were also located in different places for different reasons.

London pre-dates the railway by almost 2000 years
yet the first modern suburbs developed there.

Keith




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Lloyd Parker

In article <40b6f776$1_1@127.0.0.1>,
"Keith Willshaw" <> wrote:
    >"Steve Austin" <> wrote in message
    >news:_lxtc.237$...
    >> Starting tomorrow with "The Day After Tomorrow" and the impact it
    >will
    >> have, count on cities in Europe, the U.S., and around the world to become
    >> car-free and car-free cities to built worldwide. Cars will disappear,
    >people
    >> will stop driving, and bicycles, mass transit, and walking will take over
    >as
    >> the major forms of transportation. The suburbs will begin to disappear as
    >> people return to cities and urban areas out of concern for the environment
    >> and the planet's climate.
    >Hey birdbrain.
    >The suburbs existed BEFORE anyone invented the motor car
    >Keith

Look at, say, NYC. Its suburbs had mass transit taking people into the city,
or people worked near where they lived in the suburbs. You didn't have
people moving farther and farther out and communting for 1-2 hours each way.
Not middle-class people, anyway.

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Frank F. Matthews

George Conklin wrote:

snip
    >
    > Farmers were sprawled. Urbanites are concentrating populations in
    > smaller and smaller areas. By 2025 at least half of all population even in
    > Africa will be urbanized. Going back to the social patterns of 1820 will
    > not reduce energy use---it would INCREASE it.

I suppose that would depend on what level of population you were able to
support.