robertwojciechowski

Hello,

My family member needs to apply for reentry permit because the person
needs to leave the US on temporary basis for 2 years. \

As I understand - the reentry permit application needs to be filed
before the person leaves the US.

If I take this statement literally - then the following will satisfy
the requirement:
- The person files electronically - (So USCIS issues a receipt notice
online) at 1 P.M. on a given day.
- At 6 P.M. actually departs from the US and also sends supporting
docs before leaving. The supporting docs will get to USCIS sometime
later.

But the application is filed when USCIS actually gets the application.
If the person is physically present at the time of filing then this is
ok. It is irrelevant then how much time elapses between filing and
actual departure from the US (could be 1 hour or could be 5 months).

If it is online - then it is instant. When USCIS gets supporting docs
should be irrelevant.

Is that correct reasoning?

I understant that in such corner case - it will be important to show
at what hour the plane departed and at what time the application was
filed - however all of that is easy to do (relatively speaking

Please advise - I think this will help others in this forum.

meauxna

It's fine reasoning for you and I. I would be concerned that it would fly with USCIS.

Since online filing is so new to USCIS and they are so inconsistant in applying their policies, I wouldn't want to take it to the bank.

robertwojciechowski

On Oct 7, 6:58 pm, meauxna <member2...@nomx.expatforums.com> wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > My family member needs to apply for reentry permit because the person
> > needs to leave the US on temporary basis for 2 years. \
>
> > As I understand - the reentry permit application needs to be filed
> > before the person leaves the US.
>
> > If I take this statement literally - then the following will satisfy
> > the requirement:
> > - The person files electronically - (So USCIS issues a receipt notice
> > online) at 1 P.M. on a given day.
> > - At 6 P.M. actually departs from the US and also sends supporting
> > docs before leaving. The supporting docs will get to USCIS sometime
> > later.
>
> > But the application is filed when USCIS actually gets the application.
> > If the person is physically present at the time of filing then this is
> > ok. It is irrelevant then how much time elapses between filing and
> > actual departure from the US (could be 1 hour or could be 5 months).
>
> > If it is online - then it is instant. When USCIS gets supporting docs
> > should be irrelevant.
>
> > Is that correct reasoning?
>
> > I understant that in such corner case - it will be important to show
> > at what hour the plane departed and at what time the application was
> > filed - however all of that is easy to do (relatively speaking
>
> > Please advise - I think this will help others in this forum.
>
> It's fine reasoning for you and I. I would be concerned that it would
> fly with USCIS.
>
> Since online filing is so new to USCIS and they are so inconsistant in
> applying their policies, I wouldn't want to take it to the bank.
>
> --- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So with electronic filing where they issue a receipt notice of the
application filed on the spot - can you leave 1 week after, 2 weeks
after, 2 hours after? USCIS in their docs writes that applicant needs
to be present in the US at the time of filing the application. If
USCIS issues a receipt notice at 1 P.M. of the filing - then why can't
you leave at 2 P.M?

Let's assume USCIS really considers an application filed when all
supporting docs are sent. But USCIS will not issue any receipt notice
for the docs sent - because it issues receipt notice only when
application is filed and payment is received.

But if USCIS takes this stand that you have to wait until USCIS
receives all supporting docs - then how do you know when USCIS
receives the supporting docs. Even if you send them by mail and you
get a tracking # - USCIS can say easily that what really matters is
when the supporting docs make it to some internal mail room - this way
they are received. But that can even take a month or more and there is
no way for anyone to track.

Any comments gurus?

Is electronic filing of reentry permit simply not advisable as USCIS
has not posted any guidelines?

meauxna

<g> OK, then let's ask the obvious follow up (if this isn't just theoretical): why can't you file by mail before you leave?

You would need to find someone who has actually done this in reality to get any kind of answer, I think, and even then, what worked for them is not guaranteed to work for you.
You could also poll around for lawyers who have direct, actual experience with the online filiing of re entry permits.

robertwojciechowski

On Oct 8, 6:21 pm, meauxna <member2...@nomx.expatforums.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 7, 6:58 pm, meauxna <member2...@nomx.expatforums.com> wrote:
> > > > Hello,
>
> > > > My family member needs to apply for reentry permit because the
> > > > person
> > > > needs to leave the US on temporary basis for 2 years. \
>
> > > > As I understand - the reentry permit application needs to be filed
> > > > before the person leaves the US.
>
> > > > If I take this statement literally - then the following will
> > > > satisfy
> > > > the requirement:
> > > > - The person files electronically - (So USCIS issues a receipt
> > > > notice
> > > > online) at 1 P.M. on a given day.
> > > > - At 6 P.M. actually departs from the US and also sends supporting
> > > > docs before leaving. The supporting docs will get to USCIS
> > > > sometime
> > > > later.
>
> > > > But the application is filed when USCIS actually gets the
> > > > application.
> > > > If the person is physically present at the time of filing then
> > > > this is
> > > > ok. It is irrelevant then how much time elapses between filing and
> > > > actual departure from the US (could be 1 hour or could be 5
> > > > months).
>
> > > > If it is online - then it is instant. When USCIS gets supporting
> > > > docs
> > > > should be irrelevant.
>
> > > > Is that correct reasoning?
>
> > > > I understant that in such corner case - it will be important to
> > > > show
> > > > at what hour the plane departed and at what time the application
> > > > was
> > > > filed - however all of that is easy to do (relatively speaking
>
> > > > Please advise - I think this will help others in this forum.
>
> > > It's fine reasoning for you and I. I would be concerned that it
> > > would
> > > fly with USCIS.
>
> > > Since online filing is so new to USCIS and they are so inconsistant
> > > in
> > > applying their policies, I wouldn't want to take it to the bank.
>
> > > --- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > So with electronic filing where they issue a receipt notice of the
> > application filed on the spot - can you leave 1 week after, 2 weeks
> > after, 2 hours after? USCIS in their docs writes that applicant needs
> > to be present in the US at the time of filing the application. If
> > USCIS issues a receipt notice at 1 P.M. of the filing - then why can't
> > you leave at 2 P.M?
>
> > Let's assume USCIS really considers an application filed when all
> > supporting docs are sent. But USCIS will not issue any receipt notice
> > for the docs sent - because it issues receipt notice only when
> > application is filed and payment is received.
>
> > But if USCIS takes this stand that you have to wait until USCIS
> > receives all supporting docs - then how do you know when USCIS
> > receives the supporting docs. Even if you send them by mail and you
> > get a tracking # - USCIS can say easily that what really matters is
> > when the supporting docs make it to some internal mail room - this way
> > they are received. But that can even take a month or more and there is
> > no way for anyone to track.
>
> > Any comments gurus?
>
> > Is electronic filing of reentry permit simply not advisable as USCIS
> > has not posted any guidelines?
>
> <g> OK, then let's ask the obvious follow up (if this isn't just
> theoretical): why can't you file by mail before you leave?
>
> You would need to find someone who has actually done this in reality to
> get any kind of answer, I think, and even then, what worked for them is
> not guaranteed to work for you.
> You could also poll around for lawyers who have direct, actual
> experience with the online filiing of re entry permits.
>
> --- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The reason is that actually the person already filed by mail 2 weeks
ago but the $305 check was not cashed yet and no receipt notice has
been issued. The person wants to wait but does not want to postpone
plans.

It is obvious that we are dealing with a completely disfunctional
institution that may or may not change things at a whim. But changing
plans around because of a disfunctional institution is too much.

So the plan is - if the institution does not cash in the check before
leaving then the person will just file for a reentry online.

The issue is what USCIS considers a filed application? That is when
they issue a receipt notice and take money from bank? If this is so -
you should be able to file online at 1 P.M. and leave at 6 P.M. But
they might totally have different unpublished regulations hidden
somewhere.... So if someone has any experience - please feel free to
let me know.

meauxna

Oh, he's *already* filed.
Are you aware of the current receipting backlog? Please see this report and look up the Service Center and dates: USCIS Application and Receipting Update at uscis.gov

If your friend has proof of mailing/receipt from his shipper, that might make a whole different story.

Since this is such a unique situation, I don't think there is any way to give you a definitive answer. You might try contacting a couple of lawyers who have experience with re-entry permits and perserving PR status to get a professional opinion.

robertwojciechowski

On Oct 9, 8:23 pm, meauxna <member2...@nomx.expatforums.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 8, 6:21 pm, meauxna <member2...@nomx.expatforums.com> wrote:
> > > > On Oct 7, 6:58 pm, meauxna <member2...@nomx.expatforums.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Hello,
>
> > > > > > My family member needs to apply for reentry permit because the
> > > > > > person
> > > > > > needs to leave the US on temporary basis for 2 years. \
>
> > > > > > As I understand - the reentry permit application needs to be
> > > > > > filed
> > > > > > before the person leaves the US.
>
> > > > > > If I take this statement literally - then the following will
> > > > > > satisfy
> > > > > > the requirement:
> > > > > > - The person files electronically - (So USCIS issues a receipt
> > > > > > notice
> > > > > > online) at 1 P.M. on a given day.
> > > > > > - At 6 P.M. actually departs from the US and also sends
> > > > > > supporting
> > > > > > docs before leaving. The supporting docs will get to USCIS
> > > > > > sometime
> > > > > > later.
>
> > > > > > But the application is filed when USCIS actually gets the
> > > > > > application.
> > > > > > If the person is physically present at the time of filing then
> > > > > > this is
> > > > > > ok. It is irrelevant then how much time elapses between filing
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > actual departure from the US (could be 1 hour or could be 5
> > > > > > months).
>
> > > > > > If it is online - then it is instant. When USCIS gets
> > > > > > supporting
> > > > > > docs
> > > > > > should be irrelevant.
>
> > > > > > Is that correct reasoning?
>
> > > > > > I understant that in such corner case - it will be important
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > show
> > > > > > at what hour the plane departed and at what time the
> > > > > > application
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > filed - however all of that is easy to do (relatively
> > > > > > speaking
>
> > > > > > Please advise - I think this will help others in this forum.
>
> > > > > It's fine reasoning for you and I. I would be concerned that it
> > > > > would
> > > > > fly with USCIS.
>
> > > > > Since online filing is so new to USCIS and they are so
> > > > > inconsistant
> > > > > in
> > > > > applying their policies, I wouldn't want to take it to the bank.
>
> > > > > --- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > So with electronic filing where they issue a receipt notice of the
> > > > application filed on the spot - can you leave 1 week after, 2
> > > > weeks
> > > > after, 2 hours after? USCIS in their docs writes that applicant
> > > > needs
> > > > to be present in the US at the time of filing the application. If
> > > > USCIS issues a receipt notice at 1 P.M. of the filing - then why
> > > > can't
> > > > you leave at 2 P.M?
>
> > > > Let's assume USCIS really considers an application filed when all
> > > > supporting docs are sent. But USCIS will not issue any receipt
> > > > notice
> > > > for the docs sent - because it issues receipt notice only when
> > > > application is filed and payment is received.
>
> > > > But if USCIS takes this stand that you have to wait until USCIS
> > > > receives all supporting docs - then how do you know when USCIS
> > > > receives the supporting docs. Even if you send them by mail and
> > > > you
> > > > get a tracking # - USCIS can say easily that what really matters
> > > > is
> > > > when the supporting docs make it to some internal mail room - this
> > > > way
> > > > they are received. But that can even take a month or more and
> > > > there is
> > > > no way for anyone to track.
>
> > > > Any comments gurus?
>
> > > > Is electronic filing of reentry permit simply not advisable as
> > > > USCIS
> > > > has not posted any guidelines?
>
> > > <g> OK, then let's ask the obvious follow up (if this isn't just
> > > theoretical): why can't you file by mail before you leave?
>
> > > You would need to find someone who has actually done this in reality
> > > to
> > > get any kind of answer, I think, and even then, what worked for them
> > > is
> > > not guaranteed to work for you.
> > > You could also poll around for lawyers who have direct, actual
> > > experience with the online filiing of re entry permits.
>
> > > --- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > The reason is that actually the person already filed by mail 2 weeks
> > ago but the $305 check was not cashed yet and no receipt notice has
> > been issued. The person wants to wait but does not want to postpone
> > plans.
>
> > It is obvious that we are dealing with a completely disfunctional
> > institution that may or may not change things at a whim. But changing
> > plans around because of a disfunctional institution is too much.
>
> > So the plan is - if the institution does not cash in the check before
> > leaving then the person will just file for a reentry online.
>
> > The issue is what USCIS considers a filed application? That is when
> > they issue a receipt notice and take money from bank? If this is so -
> > you should be able to file online at 1 P.M. and leave at 6 P.M. But
> > they might totally have different unpublished regulations hidden
> > somewhere.... So if someone has any experience - please feel free to
> > let me know.
>
> Oh, he's *already* filed.
> Are you aware of the current receipting backlog? Please see this report
> and look up the Service Center and dates: USCIS Application and
> Receipting Update (http://tinyurl.com/23apnf) at uscis.gov
>
> If your friend has proof of mailing/receipt from his shipper, that might
> make a whole different story.
>
> Since this is such a unique situation, I don't think there is any way to
> give you a definitive answer. You might try contacting a couple of
> lawyers who have experience with re-entry permits and perserving PR
> status to get a professional opinion.
>
> --- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you. USCIS just cashed the check after 2 weeks. What a
disfunctionality. But at this point I assume there is proof that at
the time the check was cashed the application was filed even though
they still failed to send a receipt notice. However on the back of the
cashed check there is the LIN #.......

What a total disfunctionality.

Joe Feise

wrote on 10/10/07 12:11:

> What a total disfunctionality.

Well, yeah, but that isn't anything new. CIS is as dysfunctional as legacy INS
was. It has been that way for over a decade.
Get used to it...