Everyonetalksabout

Carl Rove, for those of you who don't already know, is
President Bush's top political advisor. If Bush said it,
and if it is political in nature, then Carl Rove approved
it.

More specifically, it seems highly likely that Carl Rove was
the genius who came up with the idea of having the President
put on his "compassionate conservative" persona and call for
radical changes to United States immigration policy less
than two weeks before the Iowa Democratic caucuses.

Why did Carl Rove and the President decide to take this
step, which departs rather dramatically from the traditional
Republican theology which is all about serving the interests
of the upper class, and which has traditionally shown no
interest whatsoever in helping the less fortunate members of
our society? And why did they decide to do it JUST AT THIS
MOMENT, just as the various Democratic presidential
candidates were being forced to stake out and defend their
public positions, in the press and during the debates, on
all manner of issues, including the explosive issue of
immigration?

And more to the point, why haven't any of the Democrats been
smart enough to ask these questions, let alone figuring out
the answers?

Because they are stupid, that's why. And Carl Rove is a
genius.

Rove and the President are forcing the Democratic
contenders... at least those that are stupid enough to rise
to the bait, which is to say all of them... to take
positions on immigration now... positions which can be used,
and that WILL be used against them in the general election.

Unfortunately, the Democrats don't have quite as good of a
brain trust as the Republicans do, and they, the Democrats,
all moronically believe that immigration is a unsalvagable
LOSE-LOSE issue for them. They believe that no matter what
position they take, even if it is to AVOID taking a
position, they lose, and they give the Republicans an issue
to use against the Democratic nominee in November.

That is in fact somewhat true, but not nearly to the extent
that the various Democratic candidates believe it is.

Here is the dilemma...

On the one hand, we have the 2/3rds of Americans...
including essentially the entire middle class and also,
nowadays, essentially all white-collar workers... who recent
polls say are unambiguously OPPOSED to more immigration (in
part, because they have begun to understand how immigration
can put THEM out of work, not just farm laborers), and on
the other hand, we have what passes for the pro-Latino
lobby, which is loud, pushy, angry, and which has convinced
all Democratic candidates for all elected positions in this
country (from dog catcher on up) that (a) the Latino
community is unified and of one mind about further
immigration (i.e. in favor of it) and that (b) if Democratic
candidates don't express similar pro-immigration sentiments
then Latinos will throw their support behind the
Republicans, instead of the Democrats.

Neither thing is true, of course, but just try saying that
out loud in a room containing one or more noisy self-
appointed Latino activists. (You will have your head handed
to you.)

Note that the immigration issue, and the Democratic response
to it, really is driven almost exclusively by the Latino
lobby. You can be damn sure that Immigration policies and
positions within the Democratic party are NOT in any sense
being driven by Lithuanian-Americans or by Italian-Americans
or by Singaporean-Americans or by Russian-Americans or even
by Haitian-Americans. To coin a phrase, "No way Jose!"
Democrats feel themselves painted into a corner on the
immigration issue simply because most Latinos are of lower
or middle class, i.e. the traditional Democratic
constituency, and the Democrats, by and large, are under the
mistaken belief that they can't win even an election for Dog
Catcher without solid Latino support.

What the Democratic party and all of the current Democratic
presidential contenders (Dean, Gephardt, Kerry, Clark,
Edwards, Lieberman, and yes, even Kucinich and Sharpton) are
failing to understand is that the Democratic party can only
ever win by obtaining more votes from the middle-class than
the Republicans do. The Democrats will always get the votes
of the lower class, and the Republicans will always get the
vote of the upper class (as well as their fat campaign
contributions). So what is left for the two major parties
to fight over? Just the middle class. And Carl Rove and
the President have brilliantly conceived and executed their
plan to exploit the one issue where Democrats clearly have
their heads up their asses, and where they consistent
believe (incorrectly) that they have to make a choice, i.e.
a choice between courting lower class and Latino voters on
the one hand, and on the other hand making the choice to go
with the sentiments of the middle-class, which polls clearly
show to be overwhelmingly against further (or expanded)
immigration.

And as the President and Carl Rove well and truly know, when
the Democrats think that they have to make this choice...
which is to say all of the time... the Democrats will
INVARIABLY chose wrong, i.e. pandering the the small but
vocal Latino lobby, thus shooting themselves (fatally) in
the foot with re- spect to the middle-class.

Divide and conquer. The oldest strategy in the book. And
the Democrats are all too dumb to even get it. Therefore,
come November, THEY DESERVE TO LOSE. And they will.

Think not? Read on!

The wonderful thing about the 2004 election is that the
Internet has finally really come of age, especially in the
sphere of politics. Ordinary citizens no longer have to
rely just on televised debates, or on catching a few sound
bites from the candidates on the evening news. Nowadays,
the candidates are being marketed with their own web sites,
just like competing brands of toothpaste or breakfast
cereal. Citizens no longer have to guess where the
candidates stand on the issues. Any voter can just go to
the candidates' web sites and find out. Right? Well, you
can find out the candidates specific positions *if* they
want to tell you and *if* they feel like publicizing their
positions, clearly, on their respective web sites.

But when it comes to the radioactive issue of immigration,
none of the Democratic presidential candidates want to get
too specific, i.e. either in public statements or on their
respective web sites, about what they will actually do, if
elected, or what their specific plans are. Why? Simply
because they do believe that immigration is *the* LOSE-LOSE
issue for them. They believe that they can't say anything,
either pro or con, about immigration without losing at least
some votes, either from the middle-class, or (they believe)
from the ever-vocal Latino lobby.

(Of course, in reality, no self-respecting lower or middle
class Latino is EVER going to vote for any Republican any
more than any environmentalist is going to do so. So there
are really no votes to lose on that side of the slate, but
the idiot Democrats haven't figured that out yet. DUH!)

Here are the web sites of all of the remaining Democratic
presidential candidates:

http://www.deanforamerica.com/
http://www.dickgephardt2004.com/
http://www.johnkerry.com/
http://www.johnedwards2004.com/
http://www.clark04.com/
http://www.joe2004.com/
http://www.kucinich.us/
http://sharpton2004.org/

I dare anybody and everybody to look over the positions on
immigration that these candidates have seen fit to post on
their web sites and then try, if you can, to provide crisp
and definitive answers the following questions for ANY of
the Democratic candidates:


o Would this candidate like to allow all Haitians who
want to come into the United States?

o Would this candidate like to allow no Haitians
whatsoever into the United States?

o Would this candidate like to expand the H1-B and L-1
visa programs, both of which have been documented as
being rife with corporate abuse, and both of which have
been documented as displacing American white-collar and
middle-class workers?

o Would this candidate like to expand the H1-B and L-1
visa programs, thus placing further American jobs at
risk?

I'll save you the time... NONE of the Democratic candidates,
either via their public statements or via their web sites
have made any attempt to provide voters with any real sense
of where the respective candidates actually stand on these
issues. For Democrats, they all, to a man, just wish that
these issues would go away. They don't want to have to take
actual positions on any aspect of immigration, because they
are afraid of losing Latinos on the one hand, and the
middle-class on the other. So rather than show some
backbone, they all have elected to obfuscate, to evade, to
duck the issue, and to take refuge behind flowery but
content-free language about "fairness", "justice", and
"traditional American values".

But Carl Rove is smart enough not to let them get away with
that. He and the President carefully prepared and timed the
President's "bold new immigration initiative" as a way of
flushing out the hiding Democrats on an issue (immigration)
which they fervently hope will simply go away.

And so far, the Democrats, by and large, have risen to the
bait. When pressed, each and every one of them makes warm
fuzzy vague comments about helping the poor and downtrodden,
and the always "hardworking" illegals. (Apparently, nobody
who was actually born here or who immigrated legally works
hard anymore. We are all spoiled fat and lazy, even those
of us who are out of work and hungry for employment at
something approaching a living wage.)

The Democrats got by on this nonsense for decades, of
course, which is why they are still desperately trying to
sell this namby-pamby slop, and these lies, to the American
public. But as Carl Rove and the President have realized,
the jig is now up for the Democrats when it comes to
immigration, and now that white-collar and middle-class
unemployment is at record levels, the middle-class isn't
going to sit still for this crap anymore. When you are a
white-collar and (formerly) middle-class worker who has just
been forced to train your replacement... an H1-B visa
"temporary" worker from India... what the hell difference
does it make if you vote for a Republican who is favor of
the H1-B who replaced you or if you vote for a Democrat who
is in favor of the H1-B who replaced you? It makes no
difference at all, so you might as well vote Republican, or
else just stay home.

For those of you who might be naive enough to believe that
the President's recent immigration initiative was spawned
out of some send of "compassionate conservatism", i.e. that
the Republicans actually give a rat's ass about either the
poor or Latinos, or immigrants generally, all I can say is
that you have a LOT of reading to catch up on, and you can
start here:

Judge Scolds Bush Immigration Panel
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/...-asylum19.html

Bush Immigration Rules Paralyze Visa System

http://www.berkeleydaily.org/text/ar...&storyID=18092

Anyway, sorry, no. Bush's game plan is NOT to change the
immigration rules in this country (and indeed, his new
"initiative" didn't even include any newly proposed
legislation). The President's only goal was to get the
Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot by siding, as they
always have, with the small but vocal Latino lobby against
the middle class, and more importantly, to get them to GO ON
RECORD (during their debates leading up to Iowa) as being
solidly against the middle class and in favor of more
immigration and coincidently, in favor of a lower standard
of living for all of the middle and lower class people who
are already here, legally or otherwise.

For Bush, immigration is now a WIN-WIN issue. By making his
recent public announcement, in which he CLAIMED that his
administration was adopting a new immigration policy (but in
which he unveiled no new legislation to implement his
alleged new policy) he is guaranteed to obtain one or the
other of the following two results, both of which are
favorable to him and/or to his well-heeled upper-class
Republican backers:


1. The Democrats will fall all over themselves, trying to
court the Latino vote, and coming out in favor of more
immigration, in which case the Democrats will
instantly alienate the millions of white-collar and
formerly middle-class workers who have been laid off
and/or replaced by H1-B/L-1 "temporary" workers over
the past few years, or else

2. The Democrats will take their heads out of their
asses, understand at last that the middle-class is
vastly larger that the Latino pro-immigration vote,
and then they will promptly alienate their traditional
constituency in the Latino community by coming out
AGAINST further immigration.

Either way, the President and the Republicans win.

Of course, the real Grand Slam for the Republicans comes if
the Democrats never even figure out that they are being
played. If the Democrats do the predictable and traditional
thing... which so far the show every sign of doing... then
they will play right into the hands of the Republican fat
cats, specifically, titans of industry and major
stockholders. Contrary to the now-outdated conventional
wisdom, these folks would love nothing better than to see
the U.S. job market flooded with UNLIMITED numbers of cheap
third-world employees at all levels (blue-collar AND white-
collar) as per the President's plan. Why would any company
want to pay, say, an insurance analyst, a secretary, a mid-
level manager, a hockey coach or anybody else a typical U.S.
wage for the job in question when instead the very same
position could be advertised for 1/3 the salary, whereupon
it would attract -ZERO- American applicants, but many
perfectly qualified third-world applicants willing to work
for that price and eager to live in the United States.
Under the President's plan corporations stand to save
BILLIONS of dollars on labor costs, and everybody from the
CEO on down becomes replaceable. (Of course, the standard
of living in the United States would simultaneously fall to
a level equal to that of the third world, but the
President's fat-cat pals in the Republican party, and at the
top of the corporate food chain won't give a rat's ass about
THAT. Instead, they will be happy to be able to get maids
that work for $3.00/hour and software engineers that work
for $20,000/year.

So far, it is looking like things really ARE going to have
to get that bad before the morons in the Democratic party
figure out that (a) they are being played and that (b) their
own stupidity and lame attempts to pander to the Latino
lobby have cots them the middle-class, and with it, both the
White House and Congress. (Gee! If they try a little
harder, and if they can just manage to act a little bit MORE
stupidly, maybe they can manage to lose control over ALL
THREE branches of government. DUH!)


Signed,
Independent and Angry


P.S. For those of you die-hard Democrats who even now are
managing to maintain your ongoing state of denial, and who
still haven't caught on to what Ralph Nader said four years
ago, i.e. the the Democrats and the Republicans are becoming
more and more just mirror images of one another, please
notice that EVEN DENNIS KUCINICH who, by virtue of his early
relegation by the mainstream media to "also ran" status, has
felt free to be outspoken on a number of issues, can't find
it in himself to give a straight answer when it comes to
immigration generally, and he carefully avoids even
mentioning the even more explosive issue of H1-B and L-1
visas that are stealing American jobs and leaving millions
of well-educated formerly middle-class white-collar
Americans out of work. Here is what passes for his publicly
articulated position on these topics:

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/immigrant_rights.php

Our country is a nation of immigrants. They have
enriched our heritage and enlivened our culture. As
millions of newcomers continue to work hard, raise
families, serve in our armed forces, and study at
universities, the Bush administration has waged an
assault on immigrant's rights. Undocumented workers
have been left in legal limbo, while local police
forces have been pressured against their will to hunt
down undocumented workers, which jeopardizes their
relationships with immigrant communities. Thousands
of immigrants have been detained in secret, denied due
process and deported.

In the economic sphere, undocumented workers have
become convenient scapegoats. Yet the reality, as
shown in study after study, is that they pay more in
taxes than they receive in government services.

Welcoming immigrants to our shores is one of our
country's vital traditions -- the heart and soul of
the American dream. In Congress, Rep. Kucinich has co-
sponsored a number of bills to help immigrants,
including the Family Unity Legalization Act, which
allows those who have been in the country for over
five years to legalize their status. Among other
legislation in this area, he has co-sponsored a bill
supportive of refugees from Columbia and Peru, and a
bill helping nationals from El Salvador, Guatemala,
Honduras and Haiti to become permanent residents.

A Kucinich administration will honor this welcoming
legacy by legalizing the status of hard-working, tax-
paying undocumented workers in the U.S. It will clear
out the backlog in the naturalization process so that
those who are eligible to become citizens can do so
without endless delays. It will offer immigrants a
clear road map to citizenship, so that they can become
fully participating members of our communities. And it
will work with our partners in Mexico to normalize the
flow of immigrants by forging an agreement on
migration.

We cannot continue with a system in which millions of
workers and their families live in fear and are
subject to economic exploitation. There is no place
in our country for second-class status. A Kucinich
administration will restore respect for the rights and
contributions of immigrants.

If there is even a single comma in here about protecting
American workers, American jobs, or the jobs of LEGAL
immigrants who played by all of the rules, then I can't find
it.

Also, call me ignorant, but someday somebody is going to
have to explain to me how it is that we have (as it has been
claimed) 8-10 million illegal workers in this country, who
we cannot even find in order to deport them, and yet,
according to Kucinich at least, most or all of them are
PAYING TAXES. Gee! Does the IRS maybe know where they all
are then? Like DUH! Maybe we just need to merge the IRS
with the INS and create a new government department, the
Department of Deportations. (Or did we really not care that
all of these millions of people are here illegally, as long
as they have to cough it up at the end of the month, just
like the rest of us poor slobs?)

Andrew Defaria

Get a website!

Post a link!

Reargunner666

"everyonetalksabout" <roamingcharges@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<r8OdneRv9Ncu643dRVn-gw@comcast.com>...
    > Carl Rove, for those of you who don't already know, is
    > President Bush's top political advisor. If Bush said it,
    > and if it is political in nature, then Carl Rove approved
    > it.
    >
    > More specifically, it seems highly likely that Carl Rove was
    > the genius who came up with the idea of having the President
    > put on his "compassionate conservative" persona and call for
    > radical changes to United States immigration policy less
    > than two weeks before the Iowa Democratic caucuses.
    >
    > Why did Carl Rove and the President decide to take this
    > step, which departs rather dramatically from the traditional
    > Republican theology which is all about serving the interests
    > of the upper class, and which has traditionally shown no
    > interest whatsoever in helping the less fortunate members of
    > our society? And why did they decide to do it JUST AT THIS
    > MOMENT, just as the various Democratic presidential
    > candidates were being forced to stake out and defend their
    > public positions, in the press and during the debates, on
    > all manner of issues, including the explosive issue of
    > immigration?
    >
    > And more to the point, why haven't any of the Democrats been
    > smart enough to ask these questions, let alone figuring out
    > the answers?
    >
    > Because they are stupid, that's why. And Carl Rove is a
    > genius.
    >
    > Rove and the President are forcing the Democratic
    > contenders... at least those that are stupid enough to rise
    > to the bait, which is to say all of them... to take
    > positions on immigration now... positions which can be used,
    > and that WILL be used against them in the general election.
    >
    > Unfortunately, the Democrats don't have quite as good of a
    > brain trust as the Republicans do, and they, the Democrats,
    > all moronically believe that immigration is a unsalvagable
    > LOSE-LOSE issue for them. They believe that no matter what
    > position they take, even if it is to AVOID taking a
    > position, they lose, and they give the Republicans an issue
    > to use against the Democratic nominee in November.
    >
    > That is in fact somewhat true, but not nearly to the extent
    > that the various Democratic candidates believe it is.
    >
    > Here is the dilemma...
    >
    > On the one hand, we have the 2/3rds of Americans...
    > including essentially the entire middle class and also,
    > nowadays, essentially all white-collar workers... who recent
    > polls say are unambiguously OPPOSED to more immigration (in
    > part, because they have begun to understand how immigration
    > can put THEM out of work, not just farm laborers), and on
    > the other hand, we have what passes for the pro-Latino
    > lobby, which is loud, pushy, angry, and which has convinced
    > all Democratic candidates for all elected positions in this
    > country (from dog catcher on up) that (a) the Latino
    > community is unified and of one mind about further
    > immigration (i.e. in favor of it) and that (b) if Democratic
    > candidates don't express similar pro-immigration sentiments
    > then Latinos will throw their support behind the
    > Republicans, instead of the Democrats.
    >
    > Neither thing is true, of course, but just try saying that
    > out loud in a room containing one or more noisy self-
    > appointed Latino activists. (You will have your head handed
    > to you.)
    >
    > Note that the immigration issue, and the Democratic response
    > to it, really is driven almost exclusively by the Latino
    > lobby. You can be damn sure that Immigration policies and
    > positions within the Democratic party are NOT in any sense
    > being driven by Lithuanian-Americans or by Italian-Americans
    > or by Singaporean-Americans or by Russian-Americans or even
    > by Haitian-Americans. To coin a phrase, "No way Jose!"
    > Democrats feel themselves painted into a corner on the
    > immigration issue simply because most Latinos are of lower
    > or middle class, i.e. the traditional Democratic
    > constituency, and the Democrats, by and large, are under the
    > mistaken belief that they can't win even an election for Dog
    > Catcher without solid Latino support.
    >
    > What the Democratic party and all of the current Democratic
    > presidential contenders (Dean, Gephardt, Kerry, Clark,
    > Edwards, Lieberman, and yes, even Kucinich and Sharpton) are
    > failing to understand is that the Democratic party can only
    > ever win by obtaining more votes from the middle-class than
    > the Republicans do. The Democrats will always get the votes
    > of the lower class, and the Republicans will always get the
    > vote of the upper class (as well as their fat campaign
    > contributions). So what is left for the two major parties
    > to fight over? Just the middle class. And Carl Rove and
    > the President have brilliantly conceived and executed their
    > plan to exploit the one issue where Democrats clearly have
    > their heads up their asses, and where they consistent
    > believe (incorrectly) that they have to make a choice, i.e.
    > a choice between courting lower class and Latino voters on
    > the one hand, and on the other hand making the choice to go
    > with the sentiments of the middle-class, which polls clearly
    > show to be overwhelmingly against further (or expanded)
    > immigration.
    >
    > And as the President and Carl Rove well and truly know, when
    > the Democrats think that they have to make this choice...
    > which is to say all of the time... the Democrats will
    > INVARIABLY chose wrong, i.e. pandering the the small but
    > vocal Latino lobby, thus shooting themselves (fatally) in
    > the foot with re- spect to the middle-class.
    >
    > Divide and conquer. The oldest strategy in the book. And
    > the Democrats are all too dumb to even get it. Therefore,
    > come November, THEY DESERVE TO LOSE. And they will.
    >
    > Think not? Read on!
    >
    > The wonderful thing about the 2004 election is that the
    > Internet has finally really come of age, especially in the
    > sphere of politics. Ordinary citizens no longer have to
    > rely just on televised debates, or on catching a few sound
    > bites from the candidates on the evening news. Nowadays,
    > the candidates are being marketed with their own web sites,
    > just like competing brands of toothpaste or breakfast
    > cereal. Citizens no longer have to guess where the
    > candidates stand on the issues. Any voter can just go to
    > the candidates' web sites and find out. Right? Well, you
    > can find out the candidates specific positions *if* they
    > want to tell you and *if* they feel like publicizing their
    > positions, clearly, on their respective web sites.
    >
    > But when it comes to the radioactive issue of immigration,
    > none of the Democratic presidential candidates want to get
    > too specific, i.e. either in public statements or on their
    > respective web sites, about what they will actually do, if
    > elected, or what their specific plans are. Why? Simply
    > because they do believe that immigration is *the* LOSE-LOSE
    > issue for them. They believe that they can't say anything,
    > either pro or con, about immigration without losing at least
    > some votes, either from the middle-class, or (they believe)
    > from the ever-vocal Latino lobby.
    >
    > (Of course, in reality, no self-respecting lower or middle
    > class Latino is EVER going to vote for any Republican any
    > more than any environmentalist is going to do so. So there
    > are really no votes to lose on that side of the slate, but
    > the idiot Democrats haven't figured that out yet. DUH!)
    >
    > Here are the web sites of all of the remaining Democratic
    > presidential candidates:
    >
    > http://www.deanforamerica.com/
    > http://www.dickgephardt2004.com/
    > http://www.johnkerry.com/
    > http://www.johnedwards2004.com/
    > http://www.clark04.com/
    > http://www.joe2004.com/
    > http://www.kucinich.us/
    > http://sharpton2004.org/
    >
    > I dare anybody and everybody to look over the positions on
    > immigration that these candidates have seen fit to post on
    > their web sites and then try, if you can, to provide crisp
    > and definitive answers the following questions for ANY of
    > the Democratic candidates:
    >
    >
    > o Would this candidate like to allow all Haitians who
    > want to come into the United States?
    >
    > o Would this candidate like to allow no Haitians
    > whatsoever into the United States?
    >
    > o Would this candidate like to expand the H1-B and L-1
    > visa programs, both of which have been documented as
    > being rife with corporate abuse, and both of which have
    > been documented as displacing American white-collar and
    > middle-class workers?
    >
    > o Would this candidate like to expand the H1-B and L-1
    > visa programs, thus placing further American jobs at
    > risk?
    >
    > I'll save you the time... NONE of the Democratic candidates,
    > either via their public statements or via their web sites
    > have made any attempt to provide voters with any real sense
    > of where the respective candidates actually stand on these
    > issues. For Democrats, they all, to a man, just wish that
    > these issues would go away. They don't want to have to take
    > actual positions on any aspect of immigration, because they
    > are afraid of losing Latinos on the one hand, and the
    > middle-class on the other. So rather than show some
    > backbone, they all have elected to obfuscate, to evade, to
    > duck the issue, and to take refuge behind flowery but
    > content-free language about "fairness", "justice", and
    > "traditional American values".
    >
    > But Carl Rove is smart enough not to let them get away with
    > that. He and the President carefully prepared and timed the
    > President's "bold new immigration initiative" as a way of
    > flushing out the hiding Democrats on an issue (immigration)
    > which they fervently hope will simply go away.
    >
    > And so far, the Democrats, by and large, have risen to the
    > bait. When pressed, each and every one of them makes warm
    > fuzzy vague comments about helping the poor and downtrodden,
    > and the always "hardworking" illegals. (Apparently, nobody
    > who was actually born here or who immigrated legally works
    > hard anymore. We are all spoiled fat and lazy, even those
    > of us who are out of work and hungry for employment at
    > something approaching a living wage.)
    >
    > The Democrats got by on this nonsense for decades, of
    > course, which is why they are still desperately trying to
    > sell this namby-pamby slop, and these lies, to the American
    > public. But as Carl Rove and the President have realized,
    > the jig is now up for the Democrats when it comes to
    > immigration, and now that white-collar and middle-class
    > unemployment is at record levels, the middle-class isn't
    > going to sit still for this crap anymore. When you are a
    > white-collar and (formerly) middle-class worker who has just
    > been forced to train your replacement... an H1-B visa
    > "temporary" worker from India... what the hell difference
    > does it make if you vote for a Republican who is favor of
    > the H1-B who replaced you or if you vote for a Democrat who
    > is in favor of the H1-B who replaced you? It makes no
    > difference at all, so you might as well vote Republican, or
    > else just stay home.
    >
    > For those of you who might be naive enough to believe that
    > the President's recent immigration initiative was spawned
    > out of some send of "compassionate conservatism", i.e. that
    > the Republicans actually give a rat's ass about either the
    > poor or Latinos, or immigrants generally, all I can say is
    > that you have a LOT of reading to catch up on, and you can
    > start here:
    >
    > Judge Scolds Bush Immigration Panel
    > http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/...-asylum19.html
    >
    > Bush Immigration Rules Paralyze Visa System
    >
    > http://www.berkeleydaily.org/text/ar...&storyID=18092
    >
    > Anyway, sorry, no. Bush's game plan is NOT to change the
    > immigration rules in this country (and indeed, his new
    > "initiative" didn't even include any newly proposed
    > legislation). The President's only goal was to get the
    > Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot by siding, as they
    > always have, with the small but vocal Latino lobby against
    > the middle class, and more importantly, to get them to GO ON
    > RECORD (during their debates leading up to Iowa) as being
    > solidly against the middle class and in favor of more
    > immigration and coincidently, in favor of a lower standard
    > of living for all of the middle and lower class people who
    > are already here, legally or otherwise.
    >
    > For Bush, immigration is now a WIN-WIN issue. By making his
    > recent public announcement, in which he CLAIMED that his
    > administration was adopting a new immigration policy (but in
    > which he unveiled no new legislation to implement his
    > alleged new policy) he is guaranteed to obtain one or the
    > other of the following two results, both of which are
    > favorable to him and/or to his well-heeled upper-class
    > Republican backers:
    >
    >
    > 1. The Democrats will fall all over themselves, trying to
    > court the Latino vote, and coming out in favor of more
    > immigration, in which case the Democrats will
    > instantly alienate the millions of white-collar and
    > formerly middle-class workers who have been laid off
    > and/or replaced by H1-B/L-1 "temporary" workers over
    > the past few years, or else
    >
    > 2. The Democrats will take their heads out of their
    > asses, understand at last that the middle-class is
    > vastly larger that the Latino pro-immigration vote,
    > and then they will promptly alienate their traditional
    > constituency in the Latino community by coming out
    > AGAINST further immigration.
    >
    > Either way, the President and the Republicans win.
    >
    > Of course, the real Grand Slam for the Republicans comes if
    > the Democrats never even figure out that they are being
    > played. If the Democrats do the predictable and traditional
    > thing... which so far the show every sign of doing... then
    > they will play right into the hands of the Republican fat
    > cats, specifically, titans of industry and major
    > stockholders. Contrary to the now-outdated conventional
    > wisdom, these folks would love nothing better than to see
    > the U.S. job market flooded with UNLIMITED numbers of cheap
    > third-world employees at all levels (blue-collar AND white-
    > collar) as per the President's plan. Why would any company
    > want to pay, say, an insurance analyst, a secretary, a mid-
    > level manager, a hockey coach or anybody else a typical U.S.
    > wage for the job in question when instead the very same
    > position could be advertised for 1/3 the salary, whereupon
    > it would attract -ZERO- American applicants, but many
    > perfectly qualified third-world applicants willing to work
    > for that price and eager to live in the United States.
    > Under the President's plan corporations stand to save
    > BILLIONS of dollars on labor costs, and everybody from the
    > CEO on down becomes replaceable. (Of course, the standard
    > of living in the United States would simultaneously fall to
    > a level equal to that of the third world, but the
    > President's fat-cat pals in the Republican party, and at the
    > top of the corporate food chain won't give a rat's ass about
    > THAT. Instead, they will be happy to be able to get maids
    > that work for $3.00/hour and software engineers that work
    > for $20,000/year.
    >
    > So far, it is looking like things really ARE going to have
    > to get that bad before the morons in the Democratic party
    > figure out that (a) they are being played and that (b) their
    > own stupidity and lame attempts to pander to the Latino
    > lobby have cots them the middle-class, and with it, both the
    > White House and Congress. (Gee! If they try a little
    > harder, and if they can just manage to act a little bit MORE
    > stupidly, maybe they can manage to lose control over ALL
    > THREE branches of government. DUH!)
    >
    >
    > Signed,
    > Independent and Angry
    >
    >
    > P.S. For those of you die-hard Democrats who even now are
    > managing to maintain your ongoing state of denial, and who
    > still haven't caught on to what Ralph Nader said four years
    > ago, i.e. the the Democrats and the Republicans are becoming
    > more and more just mirror images of one another, please
    > notice that EVEN DENNIS KUCINICH who, by virtue of his early
    > relegation by the mainstream media to "also ran" status, has
    > felt free to be outspoken on a number of issues, can't find
    > it in himself to give a straight answer when it comes to
    > immigration generally, and he carefully avoids even
    > mentioning the even more explosive issue of H1-B and L-1
    > visas that are stealing American jobs and leaving millions
    > of well-educated formerly middle-class white-collar
    > Americans out of work. Here is what passes for his publicly
    > articulated position on these topics:
    >
    > http://www.kucinich.us/issues/immigrant_rights.php
    >
    > Our country is a nation of immigrants. They have
    > enriched our heritage and enlivened our culture. As
    > millions of newcomers continue to work hard, raise
    > families, serve in our armed forces, and study at
    > universities, the Bush administration has waged an
    > assault on immigrant's rights. Undocumented workers
    > have been left in legal limbo, while local police
    > forces have been pressured against their will to hunt
    > down undocumented workers, which jeopardizes their
    > relationships with immigrant communities. Thousands
    > of immigrants have been detained in secret, denied due
    > process and deported.
    >
    > In the economic sphere, undocumented workers have
    > become convenient scapegoats. Yet the reality, as
    > shown in study after study, is that they pay more in
    > taxes than they receive in government services.
    >
    > Welcoming immigrants to our shores is one of our
    > country's vital traditions -- the heart and soul of
    > the American dream. In Congress, Rep. Kucinich has co-
    > sponsored a number of bills to help immigrants,
    > including the Family Unity Legalization Act, which
    > allows those who have been in the country for over
    > five years to legalize their status. Among other
    > legislation in this area, he has co-sponsored a bill
    > supportive of refugees from Columbia and Peru, and a
    > bill helping nationals from El Salvador, Guatemala,
    > Honduras and Haiti to become permanent residents.
    >
    > A Kucinich administration will honor this welcoming
    > legacy by legalizing the status of hard-working, tax-
    > paying undocumented workers in the U.S. It will clear
    > out the backlog in the naturalization process so that
    > those who are eligible to become citizens can do so
    > without endless delays. It will offer immigrants a
    > clear road map to citizenship, so that they can become
    > fully participating members of our communities. And it
    > will work with our partners in Mexico to normalize the
    > flow of immigrants by forging an agreement on
    > migration.
    >
    > We cannot continue with a system in which millions of
    > workers and their families live in fear and are
    > subject to economic exploitation. There is no place
    > in our country for second-class status. A Kucinich
    > administration will restore respect for the rights and
    > contributions of immigrants.
    >
    > If there is even a single comma in here about protecting
    > American workers, American jobs, or the jobs of LEGAL
    > immigrants who played by all of the rules, then I can't find
    > it.
    >
    > Also, call me ignorant, but someday somebody is going to
    > have to explain to me how it is that we have (as it has been
    > claimed) 8-10 million illegal workers in this country, who
    > we cannot even find in order to deport them, and yet,
    > according to Kucinich at least, most or all of them are
    > PAYING TAXES. Gee! Does the IRS maybe know where they all
    > are then? Like DUH! Maybe we just need to merge the IRS
    > with the INS and create a new government department, the
    > Department of Deportations. (Or did we really not care that
    > all of these millions of people are here illegally, as long
    > as they have to cough it up at the end of the month, just
    > like the rest of us poor slobs?)


its possible I guess