Runge

Hi
Do you think people in China , Singapore etc understand either language?
Is there a big difference between the two or is it more like english/english
and american/english??
Thanks

Alfred Molon

In article <buui1p$afo$>,
says...
    > Hi
    > Do you think people in China , Singapore etc understand either language?
    > Is there a big difference between the two or is it more like english/english
    > and american/english??

As far as I know there is quite a big difference between Cantonese and
Mandarin - communication won't be easy. Words are completely different.

Mandarin is spoken in Central and Northern China and Taiwan, Cantonese
in Southern China. In Singapore they are promoting Mandarin, although
the Chinese there originate from Southern China.

Spehro Pefhany

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:45:58 +0100, the renowned "Runge"
<> wrote:

    >Hi
    >Do you think people in China , Singapore etc understand either language?
    >Is there a big difference between the two or is it more like english/english
    >and american/english??
    >Thanks

The written language is the same*, but the two spoken languages are
very different. Maybe more like Italian and French. People in China
typically speak their own dialect and the national language
(Mandarin), so outside of South China few would understand Cantonese.
More people in China speak Shanghainese than Cantonese, BTW, and there
are at least half a dozen other dialects with at least 10,000,000
native speakers.

If you're looking for a language to learn- learn Mandarin unless you
have a very specific reason to learn another dialect.

* There are two forms of characters- traditional and simplified.
Taiwan and Hong Kong mostly use the former, and China (and, I think,
Singapore use the latter). There are also a few regional idioms,
AFAIUI. There are also two or three modern transliteration schemes to
describe the pronouciation of Chinese characters- Pinyin, Bompomofo
(which uses simple phonetic characters) and Wade-Giles. China and
Singapore use Hanyu Pinyin. Taiwan uses the latter two, though I think
they are now using Pinyin also for romanization.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Rupert Fiennes

The differences are rather greater in the spoke word than between variants of
English; the difference between Cantonese and Mandarin was compared to those
between Italian and Spanish. The written word on the other hand is supposed to
be fairly mutually intelligable.

In practice, travelling in Beijing, Shanghai, Xian, Lanzhou etc Mandarin was
understood, even with my pathetic pronunciation. On the other hand,
Guangzhou/HK, Chongqing and Chengdu understood much less Mandarin and differed
even from each other! No solution apart from staying in each location long
enough to tune in :-)

Rupert

Runge wrote:
    > Hi
    > Do you think people in China , Singapore etc understand either language?
    > Is there a big difference between the two or is it more like english/english
    > and american/english??
    > Thanks
    >
    >

Dieter Aaa

"Spehro Pefhany" <> schreef in bericht
news:...
    > On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:45:58 +0100, the renowned "Runge"
    > <> wrote:
    > >Hi
    > >Do you think people in China , Singapore etc understand either language?
    > >Is there a big difference between the two or is it more like
english/english
    > >and american/english??
    > >Thanks
    > The written language is the same*, but the two spoken languages are
    > very different. Maybe more like Italian and French. People in China
    > typically speak their own dialect and the national language
    > (Mandarin), so outside of South China few would understand Cantonese.
    > More people in China speak Shanghainese than Cantonese, BTW, and there
    > are at least half a dozen other dialects with at least 10,000,000
    > native speakers.
    > If you're looking for a language to learn- learn Mandarin unless you
    > have a very specific reason to learn another dialect.
    > * There are two forms of characters- traditional and simplified.
    > Taiwan and Hong Kong mostly use the former, and China (and, I think,
    > Singapore use the latter). There are also a few regional idioms,
    > AFAIUI. There are also two or three modern transliteration schemes to
    > describe the pronouciation of Chinese characters- Pinyin, Bompomofo
    > (which uses simple phonetic characters) and Wade-Giles. China and
    > Singapore use Hanyu Pinyin. Taiwan uses the latter two, though I think
    > they are now using Pinyin also for romanization.
    > Best regards,
    > Spehro Pefhany



wow
complicated

But if the difference between Mandarin and Cantonese
is no more than the difference between french and Italian
then, with some effort, they must easily understand each other ?

Why do you advise to learn Mandarin, rather than Cantonese ?
If the economical strong regions like Shangai, Hong Kong and Guangzhou
speak Cantonese, the future language will be Cantonese, isn't it ?
Why should I learn Mandarin when my business partners in Shangai speak
Cantonese ?

Spehro Pefhany

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 21:05:48 GMT, the renowned "Dieter Aaa" <Dieter
> wrote:

    >"Spehro Pefhany" <> schreef in bericht
    >news:...
    >> On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:45:58 +0100, the renowned "Runge"
    >> <> wrote:
    >> >Hi
    >> >Do you think people in China , Singapore etc understand either language?
    >> >Is there a big difference between the two or is it more like
    >english/english
    >> >and american/english??
    >> >Thanks
    >> The written language is the same*, but the two spoken languages are
    >> very different. Maybe more like Italian and French. People in China
    >> typically speak their own dialect and the national language
    >> (Mandarin), so outside of South China few would understand Cantonese.
    >> More people in China speak Shanghainese than Cantonese, BTW, and there
    >> are at least half a dozen other dialects with at least 10,000,000
    >> native speakers.
    >> If you're looking for a language to learn- learn Mandarin unless you
    >> have a very specific reason to learn another dialect.
    >> * There are two forms of characters- traditional and simplified.
    >> Taiwan and Hong Kong mostly use the former, and China (and, I think,
    >> Singapore use the latter). There are also a few regional idioms,
    >> AFAIUI. There are also two or three modern transliteration schemes to
    >> describe the pronouciation of Chinese characters- Pinyin, Bompomofo
    >> (which uses simple phonetic characters) and Wade-Giles. China and
    >> Singapore use Hanyu Pinyin. Taiwan uses the latter two, though I think
    >> they are now using Pinyin also for romanization.
    >> Best regards,
    >> Spehro Pefhany
    >wow
    >complicated
    >But if the difference between Mandarin and Cantonese
    >is no more than the difference between french and Italian
    >then, with some effort, they must easily understand each other ?

If you write it down, sure. But I've seldom heard as bad an accent on
Mandarin as from some native Cantonese speakers.

    >Why do you advise to learn Mandarin, rather than Cantonese ?

Major varieties and approximent number of speakers:
Putonghua (Mandarin) -1 billion
Wu (Shanghainese) -77 million
Yue (Cantonese) -66 million
Dungan -50 million
Min Nan -49 million
Jinyu -45 million
Hakka -40 million
Xiang (Hunanese) -36 million
Gan -25 million

Cantonese speakers are less than 7% of the total.

Hakka and Cantonese seem more prevalent outside of Asia because of
migration of those people.

    >If the economical strong regions like Shangai, Hong Kong and Guangzhou
    >speak Cantonese, the future language will be Cantonese, isn't it ?

The official language of China is Mandarin. Many people are learning
it in Hong Kong so that they can make more money in China. And many of
the people in boomtowns such as Shenzhen are actually from elsewhere
in China, so they don't speak Cantonese. The lingua franca is
Mandarin.

    >Why should I learn Mandarin when my business partners in Shangai speak
    >Cantonese ?

That may be your "very specific reason" that I mentioned. But many
people in Shanghai speak Shanghainese and most all would understand
Mandarin.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Kris

There is a huge difference between Cantonese and Mandarin. People
simply will not understand. They MIGHT get the gist of the
conversation though. There are lots of Mandarin dialects, all very
diferent and incomprehensable to Cantonese speakers.


Kris


On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:45:58 +0100, "Runge" <>
wrote:

    >Hi
    >Do you think people in China , Singapore etc understand either language?
    >Is there a big difference between the two or is it more like english/english
    >and american/english??
    >Thanks

S

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:59:21 GMT, Alfred Molon
<> wrote:

    > In Singapore they are promoting Mandarin, although
    >the Chinese there originate from Southern China.

Observing the BEHAVIOUR of the Singapore Chinese would lead one to
believe they originated from the primary forests of Africa.

Eac

"Dieter Aaa" <Dieter > wrote in message news:<M6BQb.3812$>...
    > But if the difference between Mandarin and Cantonese
    > is no more than the difference between french and Italian
    > then, with some effort, they must easily understand each other ?

Is it kinda like telling a Chinese and a Japanese to understand each
other.

    > Why do you advise to learn Mandarin, rather than Cantonese ?
    > If the economical strong regions like Shangai, Hong Kong and Guangzhou
    > speak Cantonese, the future language will be Cantonese, isn't it ?
    > Why should I learn Mandarin when my business partners in Shangai speak
    > Cantonese ?

The same reason you need to learn English if you have a business
partner who speaks Spanish, but works in... Los Angeles!

Mandarin is used the official language for communicating.

http://www.asinah.net/en/wikipedia/m...guistics_.html

"
Mandarin (linguistics)

Mandarin is the official variant of the Chinese language used in the
People's Republic of China (PRC) and the Republic of China on Taiwan
(ROC). It is also one of four official languages in Singapore. The
efforts of both the PRC and ROC to promote Mandarin as the standard
tongue has made it the most widely-spoken Chinese dialect. There are
more speakers of Mandarin than of any other spoken language.
"

Rupert Fiennes

Even in HK for example, they expect to be speaking Mandarin eventually.
Apparently, Cantonese is a language that cannot be described fully in written
form...not much point agreeing a sale/agreement in Cantonese then being unable
to fully list that in a contract. It is also easier to describe Mandarin into
Roman characters, which makes it easier to type into a computer (pinyin is the
system)

R

    > wow
    > complicated
    >
    > But if the difference between Mandarin and Cantonese
    > is no more than the difference between french and Italian
    > then, with some effort, they must easily understand each other ?
    >
    > Why do you advise to learn Mandarin, rather than Cantonese ?
    > If the economical strong regions like Shangai, Hong Kong and Guangzhou
    > speak Cantonese, the future language will be Cantonese, isn't it ?
    > Why should I learn Mandarin when my business partners in Shangai speak
    > Cantonese ?
    >
    >
    >