Jaj

Peter Wu wrote:

    > Tam <> writes:
    >
    >>Another issue: suppose that China accuses you of having acquired the
    >>nationality of country X and revokes your Chinese passport, even though you
    >>do not, in fact, have country X's nationality and never did. Or suppose
    >>that, somehow, you acquired a passport of the Turkish Republic of Northern
    >>Cyprus (that China does not recognize as a country) or of Somalia (a
    >>passport that, it is said, anybody can buy from a Somalian consul) or, for
    >>that matter,

Many countries, including Australia, no longer accept the Somali
passport as a travel document.



    >>gets a "second nationality" of a Caribbean island from an
    >>Internet site.

Most of the Caribbean countries that offered 'second nationality'
programs have shelved these in the last 2-3 years (eg Grenada).

Even before they they had requirements to meet, and you have to do a lot
more than just visit a particular website.


    > China never accuses a person of acquiring the nationality of another
    > country. When you acquire a passport of other country than China, your
    > Chinese nationality is revoked. Period.

Not if you're from the HKSAR and you carry a British National (Overseas)
passport.

From the Canadian Ministry of Foreign Affairs:
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/dest/report-...?country=55000

"Dual nationality is not recognized. Recognition of Canadian citizenship
is not automatic. Canadians of Chinese origin should travel using their
Canadian passport, obtain a Chinese entry visa, and present themselves
as Canadian to Chinese authorities at all times. Chinese authorities
will consider you a citizen of the country that issued the passport you
used to enter China. The ability of Canadian officials to provide
consular services to Canadians who have used their Chinese or Hong Kong
travel documents to enter China is limited. Canadian officials are
unable to assist detained Canadians who enter mainland China with their
Hong Kong ID.

Chinese authorities will refuse Canadian officials access to detained
Canadians if they had travelled to Canada on a Chinese Public Affairs
passport (and not returned to China) or had travelled to Canada at state
expense (and not returned to China). In these cases, Chinese authorities
consider the persons to be Chinese citizens until they have officially
renounced their Chinese citizenship and settled any outstanding
financial obligations. Canadians of Chinese origin should carefully
consider this before returning to China. Canadians can obtain additional
information from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International
Trade in Ottawa before leaving Canada"

This suggests that many Canadians of Chinese origin *may* still be
considered Chinese citizens.

Australia gives similar advice:
http://www.dfat.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/China

"Australians of Chinese origin should travel on their Australian
passport, obtain a visa for China and present themselves as Australians
at all times. The Chinese do not recognise dual nationality and will not
allow consular access by the Australian Embassy to Australians detained
by Chinese authorities if they have entered China on a Chinese passport,
a Hong Kong or Macau identity card or another non-Australian foreign
passport. They do, however, allow consular access to those who have
entered on Australian passports."



    >
    > Taiwan is a part of China. I believe most countries, including Canada,
    > recognizes there is only 1 China in the world. Thus, a Taiwanese passport
    > is invalid somehow.

Standard Taiwan passports are accepted by most countries, even those
that recognise the PRC. The PRC government effectively allows Taiwanese
to travel on Taiwan passports.

However, diplomatic or official passports issued by the Taiwan
authorities will not be accepted as valid documents by countries that
recognise PRC.


    >
    > If a person holds a so-called Taiwanese passport, he or she will denied
    > entry to China for sure!

I thought lots of Taiwanese people now visit mainland China, even though
it's necessary to travel via Hong Kong.


Jeremy

Peter Wu

JAJ <> writes:

    >> If a person holds a so-called Taiwanese passport, he or she will denied
    >> entry to China for sure!
    > I thought lots of Taiwanese people now visit mainland China, even though
    > it's necessary to travel via Hong Kong.

Lots of Taiwanese people now visit mainland China by holding a kind of
pass issued by the mainland. If they hold their Taiwanese passport to
enter mainland China, they will surely be denied.

Market Mutant

    > From the Canadian Ministry of Foreign Affairs:
    > http://www.voyage.gc.ca/dest/report-...?country=55000
    > "Dual nationality is not recognized. Recognition of Canadian citizenship
    > is not automatic. Canadians of Chinese origin should travel using their
    > Canadian passport, obtain a Chinese entry visa, and present themselves
    > as Canadian to Chinese authorities at all times. Chinese authorities
    > will consider you a citizen of the country that issued the passport you
    > used to enter China. The ability of Canadian officials to provide
    > consular services to Canadians who have used their Chinese or Hong Kong
    > travel documents to enter China is limited. Canadian officials are
    > unable to assist detained Canadians who enter mainland China with their
    > Hong Kong ID.
    > Chinese authorities will refuse Canadian officials access to detained
    > Canadians if they had travelled to Canada on a Chinese Public Affairs
    > passport (and not returned to China) or had travelled to Canada at state
    > expense (and not returned to China). In these cases, Chinese authorities
    > consider the persons to be Chinese citizens until they have officially
    > renounced their Chinese citizenship and settled any outstanding
    > financial obligations. Canadians of Chinese origin should carefully
    > consider this before returning to China. Canadians can obtain additional
    > information from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International
    > Trade in Ottawa before leaving Canada"
    > This suggests that many Canadians of Chinese origin *may* still be
    > considered Chinese citizens.
    > Australia gives similar advice:
    > http://www.dfat.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/China
    > "Australians of Chinese origin should travel on their Australian
    > passport, obtain a visa for China and present themselves as Australians
    > at all times. The Chinese do not recognise dual nationality and will not
    > allow consular access by the Australian Embassy to Australians detained
    > by Chinese authorities if they have entered China on a Chinese passport,
    > a Hong Kong or Macau identity card or another non-Australian foreign
    > passport. They do, however, allow consular access to those who have
    > entered on Australian passports."

what you pointed here is exactly my point-- people still use chinese
passport to travel into china. many senior Chinese government officials have
Canadian passports too. what i am asking is how to get in with a chinese
passport and get out without a visa on a foreign passport, or how to get a
canadian visa on chinese passport to just leave china. i know many people
get around the laws, but i don't know how. getting into china with chinese
passport will enable travelers unlimited time to stay and avoid visa fees.

the fact is what chinese law says does not matter, what matters is how they
implement it. remember china is man ruled country with laws and canada is
law ruled country governed by man.

Peter Wu

"Market Mutant" <> writes:

    > what you pointed here is exactly my point-- people still use chinese
    > passport to travel into china. many senior Chinese government officials have
    > Canadian passports too. what i am asking is how to get in with a chinese
    > passport and get out without a visa on a foreign passport, or how to get a
    > canadian visa on chinese passport to just leave china. i know many people
    > get around the laws, but i don't know how. getting into china with chinese
    > passport will enable travelers unlimited time to stay and avoid visa
    > fees.

No, you cannot use Chinese passport any more because you are no longer a
Chinese citizen. Many overseas Chinese hope we can still hold Chinese
passports to enter China after becoming Canadian citizens. Unfortunately,
we are NOT allowed to do that.

    > the fact is what chinese law says does not matter, what matters is how they
    > implement it. remember china is man ruled country with laws and canada is
    > law ruled country governed by man.

I'm sorry to hear your remarks and feel ashamed of you. If you even do
not respect Chinese laws, then you'd better not enter China to avoid
making any trouble.

Anyway, if you want to adventure or to prove what you think, you may go
ahead and test your luck.

Market Mutant

    > I'm sorry to hear your remarks and feel ashamed of you. If you even do
    > not respect Chinese laws, then you'd better not enter China to avoid
    > making any trouble.
    > Anyway, if you want to adventure or to prove what you think, you may go
    > ahead and test your luck.

law is man made and i did not pass the law. you should learn that as a
minority, your rights are disregarded in many countries, such as US
President keeps saying God Bless America, while not every American believe
in the same God as Bush's. as a Chinese, you should learn to fight the
system. Native Indians now have their own rights within Canada but not in
China nor USA. just as many freedom fighters fight againt rules of Chinese,
there are other fronts that you need to fight. i am not ashamed of you and
think you just start learning the process from the surface. law makers make
laws for themselves and for the big interest group, and not for everyone.

Peter Wu

"Market Mutant" <> writes:

    >> I'm sorry to hear your remarks and feel ashamed of you. If you even do
    >> not respect Chinese laws, then you'd better not enter China to avoid
    >> making any trouble.
    >> Anyway, if you want to adventure or to prove what you think, you may go
    >> ahead and test your luck.
    > law is man made and i did not pass the law.

Glad you realize that.

    > as a Chinese, you should learn to fight the system.

Why *should* I? Everyone is not thinking in *your* way.


    > Native Indians now have their own rights within Canada but not in
    > China nor USA. just as many freedom fighters fight againt rules of Chinese,
    > there are other fronts that you need to fight.

You think they are *freedom fighters* while most Chinese may not.

    > i am not ashamed of you and think you just start learning the process
    > from the surface.

I start to learn how to be an honest person that respects laws.

    >law makers make laws for themselves and for the big interest group, and
    >not for everyone.

Have you found any law made for *everyone*? Do you think it is possible
to make a law that satisfies *everyone's* interest??

Http://Www.Iamnotamerican.Com

in a recent article, Market Mutant () said:

    > law is man made and i did not pass the law.
So, by your argument, I can enter your home and steal all your worldly
possessions, because it is a man-made law that says I can't steal your
stuff?

Where do you live? I'd love a new TV.