James948

Dear All,

I was hoping for some advice, both general and specific.

I am a UK citizen and last September I had a truly horrendous experience
leaving the US via Canada and immediately returning.

I left the day before my 90 day Visa Walver ran out and literally turned
the car around and re-entered the states (naively, I know). They refused
me entry to the states based on the fact that I had not showed
'meaningful departure' (i.e. had not gone back to the UK and then
returned) and the fact that they believed me to be intending to work
when i arrived there.

They took away my ability to use VWP in the future. I've had lawyers
write a letters to the border patrol, the director of the theatre they
said I was going to direct the amateur play at sent letters stating I
was not nor never would be the director of the play and I, myself have
sent letters attempting to illustrate the huge communication breakdown
that happened at the border. All to no avail.

Now. I am 26 years old and applying to graduate schools in the USA. I
anticipate needing to travel to the US to interview in March (and
perhaps even late february.) Unfortunately I do not own a house or have
a mortgage and I am not on the lease of the room I rent. I do, however,
have a job and shall have a letter from them stating when I am leaving
and when they expect me to return. I shall provide bank statements
(albeit without a huge amount of money), a portfolio, and all
bureaucracy between me, my lawyers and others to the borderpatrol.

My questions are.
1) What, if any, chance is there of getting the VWP expulsion revoked;
has this ever been done before and, if so, how? I did not outstay it,
simply tried to return.

2) What are the implications of having this on my record for trying to
get a student visa if I should get in to one of these schools (and
have funding)?

3) What should I expect at the B-1 or B-2 visa appointment? What should
I expect to bring (besides the above and my passport)? Will the people
at the border take into account that my expulsion was not based on
anything I actually did but on a perception that I would do something.

2) For interviews am I applying for a B-1 or B-2 visa?

3) Has anyone here been expelled from VWP before and, if so, what were
your experiences and consequences?

4) What is the wait time on getting an appointment? Should I book it now
even before I have written confirmation of any interviews?

5) Is it worth me hiring lawyers to help me with the application? Could
lawyers help me get the VWP expulsion decision reversed.

I know this is a lot to as but I genuinely feel out of my depth here. My
admission to graduate school in the states, at the moment, relies upon
getting an interview at the school, getting an appointment at the
consulate, getting a visa, getting into the US at the border, then doing
the interview and getting accepted, then getting another appointment for
the student visa.

Please take the time to reply as it will be greatly appreciated. I
understand, I believe, where I stand with the law but any personal,
first hand experience or general advice on my predicament would be
greately appreciated.

Sincerely

Boiler

> Dear All,
>
> I was hoping for some advice, both general and specific.
>
> I am a UK citizen and last September I had a truly horrendous
> experience leaving the US via Canada and immediately returning.
>
> I left the day before my 90 day Visa Walver ran out and literally
> turned the car around and re-entered the states (naively, I know).
> They refused me entry to the states based on the fact that I had not
> showed 'meaningful departure' (i.e. had not gone back to the UK and
> then returned) and the fact that they believed me to be intending to
> work when i arrived there.
>
> They took away my ability to use VWP in the future. I've had lawyers
> write a letters to the border patrol, the director of the theatre they
> said I was going to direct the amateur play at sent letters stating I
> was not nor never would be the director of the play and I, myself have
> sent letters attempting to illustrate the huge communication breakdown
> that happened at the border. All to no avail.
>
> Now. I am 26 years old and applying to graduate schools in the USA. I
> anticipate needing to travel to the US to interview in March (and
> perhaps even late february.) Unfortunately I do not own a house or
> have a mortgage and I am not on the lease of the room I rent. I do,
> however, have a job and shall have a letter from them stating when I
> am leaving and when they expect me to return. I shall provide bank
> statements (albeit without a huge amount of money), a portfolio, and
> all bureaucracy between me, my lawyers and others to the borderpatrol.
>
> My questions are.
> 1) What, if any, chance is there of getting the VWP expulsion revoked;
> has this ever been done before and, if so, how? I did not outstay
> it, simply tried to return.
>
> 2) What are the implications of having this on my record for trying to
> get a student visa if I should get in to one of these schools (and
> have funding)?
>
> 3) What should I expect at the B-1 or B-2 visa appointment? What
> should I expect to bring (besides the above and my passport)? Will the
> people at the border take into account that my expulsion was not based
> on anything I actually did but on a perception that I would do
> something.
>
> 4) For interviews am I applying for a B-1 or B-2 visa?
>
> 5) Has anyone here been expelled from VWP before and, if so, what were
> your experiences and consequences?
>
> 6) What is the wait time on getting an appointment? Should I book it
> now even before I have written confirmation of any interviews?
>
> 7) Is it worth me hiring lawyers to help me with the application?
> Could lawyers help me get the VWP expulsion decision reversed.
>
> I know this is a lot to as but I genuinely feel out of my depth here.
> My admission to graduate school in the states, at the moment, relies
> upon getting an interview at the school, getting an appointment at the
> consulate, getting a visa, getting into the US at the border, then
> doing the interview and getting accepted, then getting another
> appointment for the student visa.
>
> Please take the time to reply as it will be greatly appreciated. I
> understand, I believe, where I stand with the law but any personal,
> first hand experience or general advice on my predicament would be
> greately appreciated.
>
> Sincerely

I was going to say none, but then I am not sure that technically you can
not try to use it again, b ut the chances are slim to nil. A bit of a
grey area, well cetainly the way the London consulate use it.



Not good as a F1 is a non immigrant visa and they obviously suspect
immigrant intent, or at least illegal working, also not allowed on a F.



The Border is now out of the picture, you have a reason to apply for
one, but nothing to suggest you will get one. Invitations from the Uni's
to come talk is all I can think of.



Sounds like a B2, not that it really matters I believe.


Not personally, seen quite a few similar posts. Usually they were
seeking to enter by air, at least you were not held prior to being out
on the next plane.



I can not see you getting very far without at least the letters. Used to
be 3 or 4 weeks, you could ring the 'help' line and ask.



The application is factual, you can download it and see for yourself.

No, you can not un-make what happened. A bit like if you were pregnant
asking a Doctor if they could make you a virgin. And from the way you
have described it they did exactly what you would expect of them.

You can never tell what your chances are, on the face of it yopu do
not have very many positive features, but I have seen some very odd
appprovals, and its only $100 so why not have a go. The Visa only
gets you back to the front door again, but if the Consulate have
decided to give you one knowing your circumstances, you have a good
chance of entry.

James948

> Dear All,
>
> I was hoping for some advice, both general and specific.
>
> I am a UK citizen and last September I had a truly horrendous
> experience leaving the US via Canada and immediately returning.
>
> I left the day before my 90 day Visa Walver ran out and literally
> turned the car around and re-entered the states (naively, I know).
> They refused me entry to the states based on the fact that I had not
> showed 'meaningful departure' (i.e. had not gone back to the UK and
> then returned) and the fact that they believed me to be intending to
> work when i arrived there.
>
> They took away my ability to use VWP in the future. I've had lawyers
> write a letters to the border patrol, the director of the theatre they
> said I was going to direct the amateur play at sent letters stating I
> was not nor never would be the director of the play and I, myself have
> sent letters attempting to illustrate the huge communication breakdown
> that happened at the border. All to no avail.
>
> Now. I am 26 years old and applying to graduate schools in the USA. I
> anticipate needing to travel to the US to interview in March (and
> perhaps even late february.) Unfortunately I do not own a house or
> have a mortgage and I am not on the lease of the room I rent. I do,
> however, have a job and shall have a letter from them stating when I
> am leaving and when they expect me to return. I shall provide bank
> statements (albeit without a huge amount of money), a portfolio, and
> all bureaucracy between me, my lawyers and others to the borderpatrol.
>
> My questions are.
> 1) What, if any, chance is there of getting the VWP expulsion revoked;
> has this ever been done before and, if so, how? I did not outstay
> it, simply tried to return.
>
> 2) What are the implications of having this on my record for trying to
> get a student visa if I should get in to one of these schools (and
> have funding)?
>
> 3) What should I expect at the B-1 or B-2 visa appointment? What
> should I expect to bring (besides the above and my passport)? Will the
> people at the border take into account that my expulsion was not based
> on anything I actually did but on a perception that I would do
> something.
>
> 4) For interviews am I applying for a B-1 or B-2 visa?
>
> 5) Has anyone here been expelled from VWP before and, if so, what were
> your experiences and consequences?
>
> 6) What is the wait time on getting an appointment? Should I book it
> now even before I have written confirmation of any interviews?
>
> 7) Is it worth me hiring lawyers to help me with the application?
> Could lawyers help me get the VWP expulsion decision reversed.
>
> I know this is a lot to as but I genuinely feel out of my depth here.
> My admission to graduate school in the states, at the moment, relies
> upon getting an interview at the school, getting an appointment at the
> consulate, getting a visa, getting into the US at the border, then
> doing the interview and getting accepted, then getting another
> appointment for the student visa.
>
> Please take the time to reply as it will be greatly appreciated. I
> understand, I believe, where I stand with the law but any personal,
> first hand experience or general advice on my predicament would be
> greately appreciated.
>
> Sincerely

Right. Pretty withering.

Can anyone else shed some light? I understand I cannot unmake what
happened, however, will this really have implications on my college
applications?

David, do you mean, having been now allowed entry on the VWP I now can
not apply for a student visa?

James948

> Right. Pretty withering.
>
> Can anyone else shed some light? I understand I cannot unmake what
> happened, however, will this really have implications on my college
> applications?
>
> David, do you mean, having been now allowed entry on the VWP I now can
> not apply for a student visa?

"Sounds like a B2, not that it really matters I believe."

Sorry, David. Do you mean it doesn't matter because in all likelyhood I
will be turned down, or because they B1 and B2 visas would both be
applicable?

Boiler

> Right. Pretty withering.
>
> Can anyone else shed some light? I understand I cannot unmake what
> happened, however, will this really have implications on my college
> applications?
>
> David, do you mean, having been now allowed entry on the VWP I now can
> not apply for a student visa?

Just tried to call it straight.

F1 is a non immigrant visa, one of the requirements is that you have to
show ties to the UK, going to return.

So whilst it does not prevent an application, it is logical that this
aspect will be more likely inspected.

But its all a crap shoot anyway.

Boiler

> "Sounds like a B2, not that it really matters I believe."
>
> Sorry, David. Do you mean it doesn't matter because in all likelyhood
> I will be turned down, or because they B1 and B2 visas would both be
> applicable?

Same application, same issues, same chance of getting one.

James948

> Dear All,
>
> I was hoping for some advice, both general and specific.
>
> I am a UK citizen and last September I had a truly horrendous
> experience leaving the US via Canada and immediately returning.
>
> I left the day before my 90 day Visa Walver ran out and literally
> turned the car around and re-entered the states (naively, I know).
> They refused me entry to the states based on the fact that I had not
> showed 'meaningful departure' (i.e. had not gone back to the UK and
> then returned) and the fact that they believed me to be intending to
> work when i arrived there.
>
> They took away my ability to use VWP in the future. I've had lawyers
> write a letters to the border patrol, the director of the theatre they
> said I was going to direct the amateur play at sent letters stating I
> was not nor never would be the director of the play and I, myself have
> sent letters attempting to illustrate the huge communication breakdown
> that happened at the border. All to no avail.
>
> Now. I am 26 years old and applying to graduate schools in the USA. I
> anticipate needing to travel to the US to interview in March (and
> perhaps even late february.) Unfortunately I do not own a house or
> have a mortgage and I am not on the lease of the room I rent. I do,
> however, have a job and shall have a letter from them stating when I
> am leaving and when they expect me to return. I shall provide bank
> statements (albeit without a huge amount of money), a portfolio, and
> all bureaucracy between me, my lawyers and others to the borderpatrol.
>
> My questions are.
> 1) What, if any, chance is there of getting the VWP expulsion revoked;
> has this ever been done before and, if so, how? I did not outstay
> it, simply tried to return.
>
> 2) What are the implications of having this on my record for trying to
> get a student visa if I should get in to one of these schools (and
> have funding)?
>
> 3) What should I expect at the B-1 or B-2 visa appointment? What
> should I expect to bring (besides the above and my passport)? Will the
> people at the border take into account that my expulsion was not based
> on anything I actually did but on a perception that I would do
> something.
>
> 4) For interviews am I applying for a B-1 or B-2 visa?
>
> 5) Has anyone here been expelled from VWP before and, if so, what were
> your experiences and consequences?
>
> 6) What is the wait time on getting an appointment? Should I book it
> now even before I have written confirmation of any interviews?
>
> 7) Is it worth me hiring lawyers to help me with the application?
> Could lawyers help me get the VWP expulsion decision reversed.
>
> I know this is a lot to as but I genuinely feel out of my depth here.
> My admission to graduate school in the states, at the moment, relies
> upon getting an interview at the school, getting an appointment at the
> consulate, getting a visa, getting into the US at the border, then
> doing the interview and getting accepted, then getting another
> appointment for the student visa.
>
> Please take the time to reply as it will be greatly appreciated. I
> understand, I believe, where I stand with the law but any personal,
> first hand experience or general advice on my predicament would be
> greately appreciated.
>
> Sincerely

No, I understand David and I appreciate your candor. I do, however,
believe I could make a reasonable case for the fact that, in order to
attend any of these universities I would have to return first to be
accepted. Then, when going to the states to attend I would be allowed
there anyway.

Presumably people who are not allowed to use the VWP anymore due to
being refused entry are often granded B1 or B2 visas?

It has got me thinking, surely there must be one case of the VWP
decision being revoked; it must be a tick-box on my record. If I can
write letters high enough then perhaps I might get the decision
reversed. I did not stay past my 90 days and, although I waived my
rights when I signed the VWP application, I'm sure someone could
make the call.

Can anyone else chime in?

Lilyella

> No, I understand David and I appreciate your candor. I do, however,
> believe I could make a reasonable case for the fact that, in order to
> attend any of these universities I would have to return first to be
> accepted. Then, when going to the states to attend I would be allowed
> there anyway.
>
> Presumably people who are not allowed to use the VWP anymore due to
> being refused entry are often granded B1 or B2 visas?
>
> It has got me thinking, surely there must be one case of the VWP
> decision being revoked; it must be a tick-box on my record. If I can
> write letters high enough then perhaps I might get the decision
> reversed. I did not stay past my 90 days and, although I waived my
> rights when I signed the VWP application, I'm sure someone could make
> the call.
>
> Can anyone else chime in?

OK, going by what you've said, this is the way I see it:

Getting the VWP ban revoked seems very unlikely, and I doubt a lawyer
would tell you any different. Therefore you have no choice but to apply
for a B visa (B1 is for business, B2 for pleasure, they are essentially
the same but I think a college visit would come under B2). So what you
should do is gather as much proof as you possibly can that you�¢â�¬â�¢ll
be returning to the UK after the specific visit to the US that you're
planning, ie, all the stuff you�¢â�¬â�¢ve mentioned: a letter from
employer, any evidence of UK-based finances, anything to demonstrate
you'll go back. Even something like an important medical appointment or
a family wedding after your trip could help.

At the Embassy, be ready to state your case, explain what happened at
the border and definitely bring all of the supporting evidence. Then it
will depend on the sympathy/attitude of the US official conducting the
interview.

As to whether you should book your interview now or when you have
the college appointments �¢â�¬â�� it�¢â�¬â�¢s your call really; if
you expect to have the letters etc any day now then book, otherwise
maybe wait.

Hope this helps �¢â�¬â�� good luck.

Boiler

> No, I understand David and I appreciate your candor. I do, however,
> believe I could make a reasonable case for the fact that, in order to
> attend any of these universities I would have to return first to be
> accepted. Then, when going to the states to attend I would be allowed
> there anyway.
>
> Presumably people who are not allowed to use the VWP anymore due to
> being refused entry are often granded B1 or B2 visas?
>
> It has got me thinking, surely there must be one case of the VWP
> decision being revoked; it must be a tick-box on my record. If I can
> write letters high enough then perhaps I might get the decision
> reversed. I did not stay past my 90 days and, although I waived my
> rights when I signed the VWP application, I'm sure someone could make
> the call.
>
> Can anyone else chime in?

I just wanted you to be clear as to the issues, you then have a better
chance to address them.

I was refused a B2 years ago, also did not know, but it was there and
everytime I sunsequently travelled I had to declare it, there forever.

However you have no real option other than to apply for a B2. Well not
that I can see.

Stats, who knows, none published, but by definition those who have
been refused entry on a VWP will as a category not have the best
chance of a B.

You need usually a change of circumstances. Now we do not know all your
circumstances but the only one that you mention that in my mind stands
up is the Uni interviews.

You have no rights, well not in the US anyway.

Your past VWP entry is history, but certainly when you attempted to
enter on a new one you did waive any rights. But as you never entered
that is a moot point.

Appreciate that US Immigration has the discretion to let you in, the
default is no entry. That might get you into a better mindset.

I appreciate that this arose through ignorance, but it is self
inflicted.

-Folinskyinla

> Dear All,
>
> I was hoping for some advice, both general and specific.
>
> I am a UK citizen and last September I had a truly horrendous
> experience leaving the US via Canada and immediately returning.
>
> I left the day before my 90 day Visa Walver ran out and literally
> turned the car around and re-entered the states (naively, I know).
> They refused me entry to the states based on the fact that I had not
> showed 'meaningful departure' (i.e. had not gone back to the UK and
> then returned) and the fact that they believed me to be intending to
> work when i arrived there.
>
> They took away my ability to use VWP in the future. I've had lawyers
> write a letters to the border patrol, the director of the theatre they
> said I was going to direct the amateur play at sent letters stating I
> was not nor never would be the director of the play and I, myself have
> sent letters attempting to illustrate the huge communication breakdown
> that happened at the border. All to no avail.
>
> Now. I am 26 years old and applying to graduate schools in the USA. I
> anticipate needing to travel to the US to interview in March (and
> perhaps even late february.) Unfortunately I do not own a house or
> have a mortgage and I am not on the lease of the room I rent. I do,
> however, have a job and shall have a letter from them stating when I
> am leaving and when they expect me to return. I shall provide bank
> statements (albeit without a huge amount of money), a portfolio, and
> all bureaucracy between me, my lawyers and others to the borderpatrol.
>
> My questions are.
> 1) What, if any, chance is there of getting the VWP expulsion revoked;
> has this ever been done before and, if so, how? I did not outstay
> it, simply tried to return.
>
> 2) What are the implications of having this on my record for trying to
> get a student visa if I should get in to one of these schools (and
> have funding)?
>
> 3) What should I expect at the B-1 or B-2 visa appointment? What
> should I expect to bring (besides the above and my passport)? Will the
> people at the border take into account that my expulsion was not based
> on anything I actually did but on a perception that I would do
> something.
>
> 4) For interviews am I applying for a B-1 or B-2 visa?
>
> 5) Has anyone here been expelled from VWP before and, if so, what were
> your experiences and consequences?
>
> 6) What is the wait time on getting an appointment? Should I book it
> now even before I have written confirmation of any interviews?
>
> 7) Is it worth me hiring lawyers to help me with the application?
> Could lawyers help me get the VWP expulsion decision reversed.
>
> I know this is a lot to as but I genuinely feel out of my depth here.
> My admission to graduate school in the states, at the moment, relies
> upon getting an interview at the school, getting an appointment at the
> consulate, getting a visa, getting into the US at the border, then
> doing the interview and getting accepted, then getting another
> appointment for the student visa.
>
> Please take the time to reply as it will be greatly appreciated. I
> understand, I believe, where I stand with the law but any personal,
> first hand experience or general advice on my predicament would be
> greately appreciated.
>
> Sincerely

Hi:

You have to apply for the B-2. However, it is common practice for
issuance of a combination B-1/B-2.

I would be more worried about the B-2 coming in for school applications.
Since the B-2 status precludes study, the B-2 and the F-1 are little
like oil and water. However, there is a procedure where "prospective
student" can be noted on the B-2 visa -- this also avoids possible
probelms at the border.

Be honest and up-front about what happened in the VW revocation. As you
said, it was a dumb mistake and DHS people have no sense of humor. BTW,
you never did violate status from what I can see.