Panda

Hi,

My wife and I (aged in our mid 20's) are planning to do a quick tour of
Europe in May/June next year for about a month (as well as probably a week
in the UK and Ireland).
This will be both of our first times overseas.

We were initially planning on doing about a 25 day bus tour such as Contiki
or Cosmos as we want to see as much of Europe as possible in the time we
have available. But the thought of being on a bus with about 50 others
herded from sight to sight did not appeal too much. We also wanted to stay
a bit longer in some places where an organised tour would just keep moving.
We considered a hop-on hop-off type service such as Bus-about but their
route and schedule were fairly inflexible meaning we would have to possibly
stay longer in some places than we would really want to.
We have looked at the rail system but it seems that it will be a quite
expensive option for the number of days and the amount of travelling we are
intending to do.

We now are planning to hire a car and go it alone as the car hire seems
reasonable and offers the most flexibility.

Both of us tend to prefer interesting scenery, history, architecture etc to
the hustle and bustle of the big cities, however we can go to Europe without
seeing the major sights..

An outline of our itinerary is as follows:

Day 1 London to Paris
Day 2 Rent a car in Paris and go to Bruges, Belgium
Day 3 Bruges to Amsterdam
Day 4 Amsterdam to Frankfurt
Day 5 Frankfurt to Munich via Würzburg and Romantic Road
Day 7 Munich to Vienna
Day 10 Vienna to Venice
Day 12 Venice to Rome
Day 15 Rome to Naples (Not sure about the Naples leg, we may opt for
some day trips around the Italian countryside)
Day 16 Naples to Florence
Day 18 Florence to Nice via Pisa
Day 20 Nice to Barcelona
Day 22 Barcelona to San Sebastian (Possibly add a couple of days to go
to Madrid)
Day 23 San Sebastian to Bordeaux
Day 24 Bordeaux to Paris
Day 27 Paris to London

I know this is going to be a bit of a whirl wind tour but we want to see as
much of the sights as possible as we probably won't be getting back to
Europe for quite a while.
I don't mind long distance driving, but we are aiming to only do about 4-5
hours driving per day so we can still see some sights along the way and take
the trip at a
more leisurely pace than the bus tours would.

I have a few questions though:

I have never driven on the right side of the road before, is everything
basically reversed e.g. go around roundabouts anti-clockwise, give way to
the left at intersections etc?

Where is the best place to find out about country specific road rules?

How does traffic/driver courtesy differ from typical Brisbane/Sydney style
driving?

How easy is it to cover long distances quickly generally in Europe? (I know
here I can cover 7-800km per day fairly comfortably)

Is English spoken along the main tourist routes where I have mentioned above
(we both had a sheltered Australian education where you only study German
for 2 years in high school (and I can't seem to remember much of that
-) )?

I would appreciate any suggestions of interesting points to see between the
cities we are intending to visit, and also any comments on the pace of our
itinerary (i.e. time in each location, travel time).
I know it will be fairly fast paced and we will be no means be able to
savour the European way of life, but what we really want is a taste of the
best that Europe has to offer.

Thanks.

Andrew.

Freeda

    > Day 1 London to Paris
    > Day 2 Rent a car in Paris and go to Bruges, Belgium
    > Day 3 Bruges to Amsterdam
    > Day 4 Amsterdam to Frankfurt
    > Day 5 Frankfurt to Munich via Würzburg and Romantic Road
    > Day 7 Munich to Vienna
    > Day 10 Vienna to Venice
    > Day 12 Venice to Rome
    > Day 15 Rome to Naples (Not sure about the Naples leg, we may opt for
    > some day trips around the Italian countryside)
    > Day 16 Naples to Florence
    > Day 18 Florence to Nice via Pisa
    > Day 20 Nice to Barcelona
    > Day 22 Barcelona to San Sebastian (Possibly add a couple of days to go
    > to Madrid)
    > Day 23 San Sebastian to Bordeaux
    > Day 24 Bordeaux to Paris
    > Day 27 Paris to London

Jesus Christ on a bike, slow down a bit.

    > I know this is going to be a bit of a whirl wind tour but we want to see
as
    > much of the sights as possible as we probably won't be getting back to
    > Europe for quite a while.
    > I don't mind long distance driving, but we are aiming to only do about 4-5
    > hours driving per day so we can still see some sights along the way and
take
    > the trip at a
    > more leisurely pace than the bus tours would.

Chance to see sights... lol, you need to trim your itinery a little

    > I have never driven on the right side of the road before, is everything
    > basically reversed e.g. go around roundabouts anti-clockwise, give way to
    > the left at intersections etc?

Basically yes.

    > Where is the best place to find out about country specific road rules?

Try a google search for specific countries driving liscencing agencies.

    > How does traffic/driver courtesy differ from typical Brisbane/Sydney style
    > driving?

You will have a lot of fun in Italy hahahahahaha..

    > How easy is it to cover long distances quickly generally in Europe? (I
know
    > here I can cover 7-800km per day fairly comfortably)

Outside of peak times, and keeping the journey leasuly, bank on about 400km
per day max.

    > Is English spoken along the main tourist routes where I have mentioned
above
    > (we both had a sheltered Australian education where you only study German
    > for 2 years in high school (and I can't seem to remember much of that

As long as you dont seem arrogant, you will find most folks will speak a few
words of English. A tip is to get a phrase book, learn a few words of the
local language (doesn't matter how bad your pronounciation) and you will
find a lot more help.

    > I would appreciate any suggestions of interesting points to see between
the
    > cities we are intending to visit, and also any comments on the pace of our
    > itinerary (i.e. time in each location, travel time).
    > I know it will be fairly fast paced and we will be no means be able to
    > savour the European way of life, but what we really want is a taste of the
    > best that Europe has to offer.
    > Thanks.
    > Andrew.

Peter L

I am from the US and have driven in your country. I can tell you that the
change from left to right side driving (or the other way) is not nearly as
simple as switch to "the other side". A lot of your driving habits are very
difficult to break. I have also driven in Europe and find that it's
relatively easy, except in Rome. Learn the word for unleaded gasoline in
French, German, and Italian.

Your itenary looks very imposing. Cut in down please. You are trying to do
way too much.


"PandA" <Don'> wrote in message
news:aLBpb.177448$...
    > Hi,
    > My wife and I (aged in our mid 20's) are planning to do a quick tour of
    > Europe in May/June next year for about a month (as well as probably a week
    > in the UK and Ireland).
    > This will be both of our first times overseas.
    > We were initially planning on doing about a 25 day bus tour such as
Contiki
    > or Cosmos as we want to see as much of Europe as possible in the time we
    > have available. But the thought of being on a bus with about 50 others
    > herded from sight to sight did not appeal too much. We also wanted to
stay
    > a bit longer in some places where an organised tour would just keep
moving.
    > We considered a hop-on hop-off type service such as Bus-about but their
    > route and schedule were fairly inflexible meaning we would have to
possibly
    > stay longer in some places than we would really want to.
    > We have looked at the rail system but it seems that it will be a quite
    > expensive option for the number of days and the amount of travelling we
are
    > intending to do.
    > We now are planning to hire a car and go it alone as the car hire seems
    > reasonable and offers the most flexibility.
    > Both of us tend to prefer interesting scenery, history, architecture etc
to
    > the hustle and bustle of the big cities, however we can go to Europe
without
    > seeing the major sights..
    > An outline of our itinerary is as follows:
    > Day 1 London to Paris
    > Day 2 Rent a car in Paris and go to Bruges, Belgium
    > Day 3 Bruges to Amsterdam
    > Day 4 Amsterdam to Frankfurt
    > Day 5 Frankfurt to Munich via Würzburg and Romantic Road
    > Day 7 Munich to Vienna
    > Day 10 Vienna to Venice
    > Day 12 Venice to Rome
    > Day 15 Rome to Naples (Not sure about the Naples leg, we may opt for
    > some day trips around the Italian countryside)
    > Day 16 Naples to Florence
    > Day 18 Florence to Nice via Pisa
    > Day 20 Nice to Barcelona
    > Day 22 Barcelona to San Sebastian (Possibly add a couple of days to go
    > to Madrid)
    > Day 23 San Sebastian to Bordeaux
    > Day 24 Bordeaux to Paris
    > Day 27 Paris to London
    > I know this is going to be a bit of a whirl wind tour but we want to see
as
    > much of the sights as possible as we probably won't be getting back to
    > Europe for quite a while.
    > I don't mind long distance driving, but we are aiming to only do about 4-5
    > hours driving per day so we can still see some sights along the way and
take
    > the trip at a
    > more leisurely pace than the bus tours would.
    > I have a few questions though:
    > I have never driven on the right side of the road before, is everything
    > basically reversed e.g. go around roundabouts anti-clockwise, give way to
    > the left at intersections etc?
    > Where is the best place to find out about country specific road rules?
    > How does traffic/driver courtesy differ from typical Brisbane/Sydney style
    > driving?
    > How easy is it to cover long distances quickly generally in Europe? (I
know
    > here I can cover 7-800km per day fairly comfortably)
    > Is English spoken along the main tourist routes where I have mentioned
above
    > (we both had a sheltered Australian education where you only study German
    > for 2 years in high school (and I can't seem to remember much of that
    > -) )?
    > I would appreciate any suggestions of interesting points to see between
the
    > cities we are intending to visit, and also any comments on the pace of our
    > itinerary (i.e. time in each location, travel time).
    > I know it will be fairly fast paced and we will be no means be able to
    > savour the European way of life, but what we really want is a taste of the
    > best that Europe has to offer.
    > Thanks.
    > Andrew.

David Horne

Peter L <> wrote:

    > I am from the US and have driven in your country.

Oh. I'm getting déja-vu all over again...

David

Panda

Thanks for the tips!

I know it is going to be very hectic as I have noted. How would you guys
suggest making it better? Spend longer at some places? Cut down on the
stops?

I was thinking we may cut out Amsterdam, Naples, possibly cut out San
Sebastian and get back to Paris more directly from Barcelona, Madrid was
only a pie in the sky idea if we managed to get that far.

I suppose as this is our first trip (and also the last big trip we'll
probably have before having kids) we want to see as much as possible, as we
don't know when we will be getting back to Europe again.

I have heard lots of comments about driving in Italy... Is there an easy
way of getting into (close to) Rome and then just leaving the car at the
hotel/motel for the duration of our stay?

Andrew.

"Peter L" <> wrote in message
news:bo6r0h$15fe0c$...
    > I am from the US and have driven in your country. I can tell you that the
    > change from left to right side driving (or the other way) is not nearly as
    > simple as switch to "the other side". A lot of your driving habits are
very
    > difficult to break. I have also driven in Europe and find that it's
    > relatively easy, except in Rome. Learn the word for unleaded gasoline in
    > French, German, and Italian.
    > Your itenary looks very imposing. Cut in down please. You are trying to
do
    > way too much.
    > "PandA" <Don'> wrote in message
    > news:aLBpb.177448$...
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > My wife and I (aged in our mid 20's) are planning to do a quick tour of
    > > Europe in May/June next year for about a month (as well as probably a
week
    > > in the UK and Ireland).
    > > This will be both of our first times overseas.
    > >
    > > We were initially planning on doing about a 25 day bus tour such as
    > Contiki
    > > or Cosmos as we want to see as much of Europe as possible in the time we
    > > have available. But the thought of being on a bus with about 50 others
    > > herded from sight to sight did not appeal too much. We also wanted to
    > stay
    > > a bit longer in some places where an organised tour would just keep
    > moving.
    > > We considered a hop-on hop-off type service such as Bus-about but their
    > > route and schedule were fairly inflexible meaning we would have to
    > possibly
    > > stay longer in some places than we would really want to.
    > > We have looked at the rail system but it seems that it will be a quite
    > > expensive option for the number of days and the amount of travelling we
    > are
    > > intending to do.
    > >
    > > We now are planning to hire a car and go it alone as the car hire seems
    > > reasonable and offers the most flexibility.
    > >
    > > Both of us tend to prefer interesting scenery, history, architecture etc
    > to
    > > the hustle and bustle of the big cities, however we can go to Europe
    > without
    > > seeing the major sights..
    > >
    > > An outline of our itinerary is as follows:
    > >
    > > Day 1 London to Paris
    > > Day 2 Rent a car in Paris and go to Bruges, Belgium
    > > Day 3 Bruges to Amsterdam
    > > Day 4 Amsterdam to Frankfurt
    > > Day 5 Frankfurt to Munich via Würzburg and Romantic Road
    > > Day 7 Munich to Vienna
    > > Day 10 Vienna to Venice
    > > Day 12 Venice to Rome
    > > Day 15 Rome to Naples (Not sure about the Naples leg, we may opt for
    > > some day trips around the Italian countryside)
    > > Day 16 Naples to Florence
    > > Day 18 Florence to Nice via Pisa
    > > Day 20 Nice to Barcelona
    > > Day 22 Barcelona to San Sebastian (Possibly add a couple of days to
go
    > > to Madrid)
    > > Day 23 San Sebastian to Bordeaux
    > > Day 24 Bordeaux to Paris
    > > Day 27 Paris to London
    > >
    > > I know this is going to be a bit of a whirl wind tour but we want to see
    > as
    > > much of the sights as possible as we probably won't be getting back to
    > > Europe for quite a while.
    > > I don't mind long distance driving, but we are aiming to only do about
4-5
    > > hours driving per day so we can still see some sights along the way and
    > take
    > > the trip at a
    > > more leisurely pace than the bus tours would.
    > >
    > > I have a few questions though:
    > >
    > > I have never driven on the right side of the road before, is everything
    > > basically reversed e.g. go around roundabouts anti-clockwise, give way
to
    > > the left at intersections etc?
    > >
    > > Where is the best place to find out about country specific road rules?
    > >
    > > How does traffic/driver courtesy differ from typical Brisbane/Sydney
style
    > > driving?
    > >
    > > How easy is it to cover long distances quickly generally in Europe? (I
    > know
    > > here I can cover 7-800km per day fairly comfortably)
    > >
    > > Is English spoken along the main tourist routes where I have mentioned
    > above
    > > (we both had a sheltered Australian education where you only study
German
    > > for 2 years in high school (and I can't seem to remember much of that
    > > -) )?
    > >
    > > I would appreciate any suggestions of interesting points to see between
    > the
    > > cities we are intending to visit, and also any comments on the pace of
our
    > > itinerary (i.e. time in each location, travel time).
    > > I know it will be fairly fast paced and we will be no means be able to
    > > savour the European way of life, but what we really want is a taste of
the
    > > best that Europe has to offer.
    > >
    > > Thanks.
    > >
    > > Andrew.
    > >
    > >

Miguel Cruz

PandA <Don'> wrote:
    > I know it is going to be very hectic as I have noted. How would you guys
    > suggest making it better? Spend longer at some places? Cut down on the
    > stops?

Both - cut some places out in order to spend a little longer in the
more interesting spots.

Imagine packing and unpacking everything every single day for two weeks.
You'll go crazy. After 8 or 10 days You'll wake up in the morning not
wanting to face the day. Doesn't sound like much of a holiday to me.

    > I suppose as this is our first trip (and also the last big trip we'll
    > probably have before having kids) we want to see as much as possible, as
    > we don't know when we will be getting back to Europe again.

I question whether this plan gets you what you think it does. Rather than
greater diversity of experience, you get an endless repetition of the
unpleasant experience of last-mile auto navigation in search of a hotel,
dragging your bags in and out of cars, and so on.

As a rule, I'd say the second and third days in a place are a whole lot
better than the first. That's when you know your way around well enough to
start finding the interesting stuff.

miguel

Sjoerd

"PandA" <Don'> schreef in bericht
news:aLBpb.177448$...
    > Hi,
    > My wife and I (aged in our mid 20's) are planning to do a quick tour of
    > Europe in May/June next year for about a month (as well as probably a week
    > in the UK and Ireland).
    > This will be both of our first times overseas.
    > We were initially planning on doing about a 25 day bus tour such as
Contiki
    > or Cosmos as we want to see as much of Europe as possible in the time we
    > have available. But the thought of being on a bus with about 50 others
    > herded from sight to sight did not appeal too much. We also wanted to
stay
    > a bit longer in some places where an organised tour would just keep
moving.
    > We considered a hop-on hop-off type service such as Bus-about but their
    > route and schedule were fairly inflexible meaning we would have to
possibly
    > stay longer in some places than we would really want to.
    > We have looked at the rail system but it seems that it will be a quite
    > expensive option for the number of days and the amount of travelling we
are
    > intending to do.
    > We now are planning to hire a car and go it alone as the car hire seems
    > reasonable and offers the most flexibility.
    > Both of us tend to prefer interesting scenery, history, architecture etc
to
    > the hustle and bustle of the big cities, however we can go to Europe
without
    > seeing the major sights..
    > An outline of our itinerary is as follows:
    > Day 1 London to Paris
    > Day 2 Rent a car in Paris and go to Bruges, Belgium
    > Day 3 Bruges to Amsterdam
    > Day 4 Amsterdam to Frankfurt
    > Day 5 Frankfurt to Munich via Würzburg and Romantic Road
    > Day 7 Munich to Vienna
    > Day 10 Vienna to Venice
    > Day 12 Venice to Rome
    > Day 15 Rome to Naples (Not sure about the Naples leg, we may opt for
    > some day trips around the Italian countryside)
    > Day 16 Naples to Florence
    > Day 18 Florence to Nice via Pisa
    > Day 20 Nice to Barcelona
    > Day 22 Barcelona to San Sebastian (Possibly add a couple of days to go
    > to Madrid)
    > Day 23 San Sebastian to Bordeaux
    > Day 24 Bordeaux to Paris
    > Day 27 Paris to London


You seem to be interested in big cities mainly. Expect traffic jams going in
and out of these cities, problems finding your hotel and finding a place to
park. I once spent 4 hours driving from Amsterdam to Paris, and another 3
hours driving around Paris first to find the address I needed to be, and
secondly to find a place to park. All very stressful and not my idea of a
holiday. Honestly, I'd be surprised if after this trip you are still married
to your wife!

You are trying to do *way* too much. In 27 days, you can see three large
cities (say: London, Paris and Rome) for 5 days each, and a couple of
smaller ones. Also, don't "do' too many cities, instead take more time to
discover the countryside. (for instance spend a week in Tuscany or Dordogne
area or Loire area)
So fly or train between the big cities and rent a car only to do the
countryside bit.

Sjoerd

Panda

Thanks for the tips Sjoerd,

Hadn't really thought of getting the train to the major places then hiring a
car from them.

Just wanted to let the group know, we're not planning on including London in
the itinerary below, we will be doing UK for about 8-9 days and the Republic
of Ireland for 4-5 days either before or after the Europe trip.
Unfortunately we only have 6 weeks holidays :-(

But I will certainly look at upping the duration in Paris and Rome.

Andrew.

"Sjoerd" <> wrote in message
news:3fa70842$0$58710$...
    > "PandA" <Don'> schreef in bericht
    > news:aLBpb.177448$...
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > My wife and I (aged in our mid 20's) are planning to do a quick tour of
    > > Europe in May/June next year for about a month (as well as probably a
week
    > > in the UK and Ireland).
    > > This will be both of our first times overseas.
    > >
    > > We were initially planning on doing about a 25 day bus tour such as
    > Contiki
    > > or Cosmos as we want to see as much of Europe as possible in the time we
    > > have available. But the thought of being on a bus with about 50 others
    > > herded from sight to sight did not appeal too much. We also wanted to
    > stay
    > > a bit longer in some places where an organised tour would just keep
    > moving.
    > > We considered a hop-on hop-off type service such as Bus-about but their
    > > route and schedule were fairly inflexible meaning we would have to
    > possibly
    > > stay longer in some places than we would really want to.
    > > We have looked at the rail system but it seems that it will be a quite
    > > expensive option for the number of days and the amount of travelling we
    > are
    > > intending to do.
    > >
    > > We now are planning to hire a car and go it alone as the car hire seems
    > > reasonable and offers the most flexibility.
    > >
    > > Both of us tend to prefer interesting scenery, history, architecture etc
    > to
    > > the hustle and bustle of the big cities, however we can go to Europe
    > without
    > > seeing the major sights..
    > >
    > > An outline of our itinerary is as follows:
    > >
    > > Day 1 London to Paris
    > > Day 2 Rent a car in Paris and go to Bruges, Belgium
    > > Day 3 Bruges to Amsterdam
    > > Day 4 Amsterdam to Frankfurt
    > > Day 5 Frankfurt to Munich via Würzburg and Romantic Road
    > > Day 7 Munich to Vienna
    > > Day 10 Vienna to Venice
    > > Day 12 Venice to Rome
    > > Day 15 Rome to Naples (Not sure about the Naples leg, we may opt for
    > > some day trips around the Italian countryside)
    > > Day 16 Naples to Florence
    > > Day 18 Florence to Nice via Pisa
    > > Day 20 Nice to Barcelona
    > > Day 22 Barcelona to San Sebastian (Possibly add a couple of days to
go
    > > to Madrid)
    > > Day 23 San Sebastian to Bordeaux
    > > Day 24 Bordeaux to Paris
    > > Day 27 Paris to London
    > You seem to be interested in big cities mainly. Expect traffic jams going
in
    > and out of these cities, problems finding your hotel and finding a place
to
    > park. I once spent 4 hours driving from Amsterdam to Paris, and another 3
    > hours driving around Paris first to find the address I needed to be, and
    > secondly to find a place to park. All very stressful and not my idea of a
    > holiday. Honestly, I'd be surprised if after this trip you are still
married
    > to your wife!
    > You are trying to do *way* too much. In 27 days, you can see three large
    > cities (say: London, Paris and Rome) for 5 days each, and a couple of
    > smaller ones. Also, don't "do' too many cities, instead take more time to
    > discover the countryside. (for instance spend a week in Tuscany or
Dordogne
    > area or Loire area)
    > So fly or train between the big cities and rent a car only to do the
    > countryside bit.
    > Sjoerd

Yves Bellefeuille

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003, "PandA" <Don'> wrote:

    > We have looked at the rail system but it seems that it will be a quite
    > expensive option for the number of days and the amount of travelling we are
    > intending to do.

As everybody else said, cut down your list. And reconsider your decision
not to use the train; consider a Eurail pass.

Millie

Andrew,

I was going to suggest for you to rethink the train idea like Sjoerd wrote.
Gasoline is very expensive in Europe. As I recall 1 litre is about US$2.00
that was two years ago. Plus, all the chaos of driving and navigating.

I feel that the only way to travel in Europe, if it's available, is by
train. I'm biased. I like planning my new adventure, jornaling my old
adventures, taking in the scenery, chatting with new friends, etc and not
having to worry; I'll just get there. Also, most train stations are the
center of the town which makes an advantage for sightseeing or other
transportation.

Lastly, I would spend a least three days in the cities of your choice
because it give you the time to settle into the room, become familiar with
your surroundings, and to do 3-4 things on the must do list.

Just my $.02

Millie